Musician Gear & Tech Discussion

So I need a decent set-up to project my vocals over the rest of the band, and a mic etc. I contacted a store here in town that is well known for being good but I am not familiar enough with the equipment that;s out there to know if this is too much or just right, kwim? He quoted me:

#1) Phonic Powerpod 620 Plus - suitable for small live gigs, up to 6 inputs.
#2) Wharfedale 15" PA Speakers - 500W, & should use 2, one near me & one near rhythm section.
#3) Samson Q7 Vocal Mic
Grand Total: $1000

Or could use a Wharfedale Powered Monitor for myself only...and would be ideal for practice, but the other band members won't be able to hear your vocals as well as they would with system #1, or be suitable for small live gigs.
Grand Total: $780

I do not want to underestimate this guy, he does good business and comes highly recommended, BUT as I said, I am not familiar enough with what's out there.

Does anybody have a system that they use and are very happy with that might be a little cheaper but still suit my needs? Or is this just right?

Thanks!
Erica

Erica, lots of posts in this section on mic,s and stuff. Read back a little if you have a moment. Most all my PA stuff is Carvin. I like it a lot and they sell a lot of components and full meal deals. You can check em out at the Carvin.com. Also look at the prices ot Musicians friend they carry a butt load of stuff and lots of tech info as well as reviews. My preference is a PA with monitors and mains all in one system. makes it easy for me to balance the sound levels and EQ. Not being a sound man I lke it simple.

Not being a sound man I lke it simple.

Yup, me too! Okay, I will try to find some time to come & read up in this section here...thanks! Probably should've earlier...

Tis cool sis thats why were here.

Erica,
I've put a system together that i've been using for many years. My wife Cin and I bought it when she was still playin', back in the late 80's. Still sounds great for any club in the Poconos. Got a couple of grand invested, but it's paid us back in spades. I offer it just as an example of how I do it.
Nowadays, you can put a good system together for less that will work fine.

Shure PE65 mikes

Peavey 701R 7 channel rack mixer

? (forgot brand) crossover.(if i opt to use in active electronic mode I simply split high/ low in stereo, with mono sub out, crossed over according to room acoustics by ear.

Alisis Midiverb 2 FX

Peavey M 7000 power amp. Possibly the most dependable amp ever made. I use it full range stereo if running the built in passive crossovers in the speaker cabinets. Just for lows in the active crossover mode.

PAS 100W stereo power amp for highs

Some kinda newer power amp with a burned out channel for the mono sub.

One custom built EV designed sub cabinet loaded with a 4 ohm 18" Peavey Black Widow.

A pair of Peavey Internationals 15s for the mains.

NO MONITERS WANTED OR NESSASSRY! (leave that crap for the big venues) All they do is take up space in the club and create feedback problems. I know a lot of you think you need them, but the infamous Grateful Dead soundman, Stan{the bear} Owsley came up with the idea, and he was trippin' at the time! Anyways, Howlin' always puts the mains BEHIND the players. That way, everyone (even the band) gets to hear what you really sound like.I seldom have feedback problems. Don't need some asswhole sittin' in front of a mixer takin' up valuable table space, drinkin beer, expectin' to get paid, makin' believe he's a soundman.

This system has driven full synths programmed with drums when Cin and I were doin' the duo thing.
It functions excellently with a full four piece band carrying four vocal mics, kick drum mic, two synthesizers in stereo, live mike from guitar if needed. (usually just a tinge of gain is necessary).

If y'all wanna hear this wondrous piece of sound engineering in action, click on my mug at the left and listen to "I Put A Spell On You." That Screamin' J Hawkins tune was recorded live at practice two years ago by my old band "The Gin House Rockers". It was recorded with one mic only using a minidisc recorder.

check it out,
Howlin'

1- 15" powered speaker, 8 channel Alesis multimix recorder, Audix I-5 (or Sure SM57).

In a practice setting, I generally stay away from powered p.a.'s with passive speakers. Powered P.A.'s have a high gain that is more inclined to make the mic feedback than a powered speaker.

Although the Multimix recorder is listed as a recorder, it's also a mixer with built in effects. $150 new. And if you want to use it to record, it comes with cubase and a usb output. With the mixer set at lower settings and a powered speaker's volume, Bass and high eq doing most of the work, less gain, less feedback.

The Audix I-5 is listed as an instrument mic, but in a practice room, condenser mics work better for vocals (In my opinion). Because it only accepts noise from straight on. All noise coming from the sides are diminished greatly (guitar, bass, drum snare, and symbols) and the mic focuses mainly on what's coming directly in front of it. In practice rooms, side noise can trigger feedback and hum. A condenser mic takes a little getting used to, because you really have to kiss the mic, but it's worth saving yourself the hum and feedback. And you should be able to turn your volume up higher.

In practice settings, there is a peak-level to which mic feedback is inevitable for any setup. It's very common not to be able to hear yourself due to the volume levels of drums bass and guitars. Usually those volume levels exceed the peak-level of the vocal setup. I used to use a Sure SM57, but the Audix had a little more of a somewhat dynamic range.

This setup worked for me all year. Combating feedback is the name of the game. Whether you have 1 or 2 speakers really doesn't matter according to that peak level. It'll still find a way to feedback. Or you can always tell the rest of the band members to turn down.. (yea right, not gonna happen :p)

Anyway, this has been my experience so far, some may disagree, but I hope this helps.

Peace.

This is some good stuff guys. I've tried the mains behind the band using my powered PA into passive speakers. The feedback was horrific had to just about flat line the EQ. At the time we had two vocal mics up front and seven mics on the drummer.
What if I went back to this system, my drummer is on electronics now so I'm down to only the vox mics. I could put my condensers up front, when I run them on the AA batts vs phantom I've had little feed back off them thus far. Logistics would be so much easier without the monitors. and I could use those two 300 watt channels as additional mains.
What if I put a gate / compressor on the vox mics, that would help to, no?

George,
Doin' sound is one of those things that you have to fiddle with till ya get it right. Remember, when Cin and I put our system together, We had to consider the direct line from the synths, thus the kind of nuts provided by the 18" sub and the 15" Internationals.

Your band would be well served by a small set of high quality mains on poles, like a 12 incher, since your primary use is vocals. Mike and speaker placement is everything in a monitor-less system. You could still mike your guitar, but I would refrain from that unless you have to. Keep it simple. I'm not a fan of powered mixers, but I've used them with good results. They help keep setup and teardown less arduous.

Lean How to "Optimise" your Mixer settings! (very Important)

looks like the doc did a good bondo job on me, so I hope to get my boys back together on Friday to jam out. I Like Medical folk as much as guitarplayers these days.
Keep on keepin'on and God bless you and yours,
John

Thanks Howlin glad to here your back on the hunt my man.

Awesome! Thanks so much guys for all your help! That's just what I needed...there's so many threads here to read thru for each piece I need that I was going nuts! lol I will definately write this stuff down & take it with me as suggestions when I go to purchase this week.

Look before you leap koolmom, lot of this stuff can be had much cheaper online and still new. Times I wished I'd known a lot more before I invested so heavly, I,m happy with my stuff but I might have done it different if I'd just cooled my tubes a day or two.

...but I might have done it different if I'd just cooled my tubes a day or two.

Oh I hear ya friend! Story of a big chunk of my life...I have learned this lesson over the years as I age...

So I kept asking and looking into this and ended up going with a Peavey Escort. Cost me $800 CND - but I know that's a good deal for a PA system. Coolest little mixer-in-box! It's got 150W 5 channel mixer with EQ, 10" woofer, stands for both speakers and more....it folds into one case with castors. I can't remember all the specs off the top of my head, but I'm happy both with the price I paid & the set-up itself. It's going to be just right for us (4 pc - acoustic only) and the guy said it'll be good for smaller venues of up to 150 ppl. Plus it's easy to set up, light enough that I don't need to stop any man walkin' by to help and it's small enough of a case that it doesn't take a U-Haul to get my gear to rehearsal! lol

Anybody else use this system?

Koolmom,

Good deal!
That Peavey should definitely do the job for you. Learn to optimise your mix and position your mikes and speakers properly and you'll be makin' good music.

Very sensible.

howlin'

I have actually heard those. Back in my acoustic days, there were more than one of those used for house set-ups for open mic nights. They work great.

Damn, that brings back some memories. Open mic nights.. I really should do a couple more of 'em in the near future. They're just good clean fun.

I forget sometimes that not everyone is in a hard-core, high volume setting. But if you ever find yourself in a Slipknot type situation, the condenser mic trick comes in real handy.


(off topic) At open mic nights I used to sit in a chair with the legs cut in half, so people had to come to the front to see me. Hahaha.. That was a nice little trick too.

GOODGAWD SREDDIN"TEDDY!,

Sorry to hear about your legs. That must have hurt even worse then grabbin' hold of a red hot 6L6 !

howlin'