Musician Gear & Tech Discussion

Didnt want to put this on the main forum cause it will turn into something its not.

Planet guy was talking about using a smaller amp. And he got me thinking.

I have a small 20 watt combo tube amp. When I record amps, its ussually my go too amp. So after reading the thread about a smaller amp, I decided to get it out and see if it would work for my gig this weekend. I plugged into thru my pedal board and as always it just sounds awesome, I always have to play with the mids to hit the sweet spot for me. But there was something missing.

Crip in the thread said you gotta use a 4x12 cab, so I hooked it to my 4x12. Yea thats what it was missing, for the style music I play you just cant replace that cab, the thunk it does. Yea that made all the difference. I had done this yesterday.

This morning I got up early for work and walked by the room with my amps and it hit me, the big thing that is such a bitch to move is the cab. So if Im gonna carry the big cab, then why carry the little combo, other than as a spare.

So I had about 30 minutes and plugged up the big head. I played around with the eq and gain and got some nice sweet sounds. Yea there it is, thats what Im after.

I guess for the music I play Im just a big amp guy, the combo sounds good, I mean really really good, but for live playing there just any substitute for my half stack, its the chit in my book.

So this weekend I will be playing the half stack.

Kinda fun to question what you are doing and try other things once in a while, and it actually made me reevaluate my tone settings on my big amp.

I will just save the small amp for jams, and recording for the moment.

Not willing to quit waving my freak flag quite yet!

It's so easy to mic ( Senheiser e609 ) my 5 watt (Marshall class5 ) into our board.
Then with the four monitor sends I can put that sound wherever I want it on stage, and through the mains.
Amp, pedal board, guitar n all weigh less than a 4x12 cab alone, and take up less space in our travel rig.

Don't get me wrong . . . I'm not knocking the other way.
In fact if I had a bigger trailer ( and some younger roadies ) I might be all for a big double stack.

Half stack is great - IF the band is playing at the volume (or louder, with everything miced to the PA) where the guitar doesn't drown everything out.

We play probably louder than you guys do.

I use a lot of feedback squeaks and squeals when I play guitar, so if Im pumped thru the PA I have a hard time controlling it, Im not talking about uncontrolled stuff, but when Im juiceed in the monitors to where i can do that, it tends to get away from us and cover the vocals, so my amp is my stage monitor and I put just a little in the drummers monitor. All instruments are in the mains, unless we have some issue after I Zap the EQ in the room, we get a very very clean sound. Probably only using the PA in most rooms to about 40% of what it will do.

The side gigs Ive done over the last few monthes, the bands have prefered that I use my half stack, so I guess it sounds pretty good, they have had to tell me to turn down a bit. BUt I have suggest just bringing a preamp or taking my combo and they want the big stuff.

Honestly the quaility of my guitar tone, or what Im trying to do is better served with a 4x12 cab, so I might as well use my big head cause I have 3 channels to vary tones with. Plus all my pedals, sometimes I feel like a mad scientist stepping on my pedals just to texture parts of songs.

If I were playing as much as you Planet Guy, I would probably scale back some things, but for my group Aint Yo Mama, we are just a dinosaur throwback to stadium rock of the 70s, big pa, big amps, all that just kinda goes with the vibe, and I imagine its why people have stuck with us thru the years cause they know we are gonna give them 100%.

Thanks, but to my ears there is nothing like some good celestions with a burning tube amp pushing them, if I wanted to line in I just use my POD PRO, its got a great setting for a Marshall JCM 800 which is what I basically use as my guide tone, ala Slash first GnR album.

And to be honest, If I ever move away from amps I would get one of those Fractual Axxis preamp rigs and do away with amps for good, they are pretty expensive at this time, but i think as more hit the market, one of those will be my next phase.

What 20 watter are you using JW? I like small tonefull tube amps too, especially for recording.
I sold off the last of my big dogs last year when I sold this 2266.



I can honestly say I don't miss it a bit.
The biggest rigs I have now are two head & 212 cab rigs.
One is a Tweaker 15 with a V30 loaded closed back cab and
the other is a '47 Masco tube PA I had converted into a guitar amp
by Skip Simmons in CA. I use that with a alnico loaded pine 212.
The Tweaker covers my Marshall tone needs perfectly and has really nice Fender tone as well.
The Masco goes from '50s Tweed Fender to JTM45 territory when cranked.



I've been on a small vintage tube amp kick for the last few years.
It all started with a '65 Silvertone 1482 that was a real eye opener.
It's tone is insane. Here is a compilation of different short clips from clean to swampy delta blues tremolo to raw rock raunch.
It may be my favorite recording amp of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKL9Lw0CB1o



This one is my baby. It's dead mint.



Soon after came '67 that I did some work on which is a really nice amp that sounds a lot bigger than it's 15 watts.

BEFORE



AFTER



My last acquisition is the '59 Orpheum below.
It has a dual 6AQ5 power section. They were designed to be the small bottle version of a 6V6 tube.They actually sound like a cross
between a 6V6 and a EL84. It's got a nice 12" Jensen alnico in it too.
It sounds really, really good with bell like clean tone that goes to raw old school overdrive when pushed hard with a pedal.
It's edge of break up blues tone is outstanding.



I'm not missing my big dogs at all. If I need more volume I put a
Minimass between the amp & speaker and run it's line out to
a rack mounted MosValve power amp which I run in stereo to the 212 cabs.
It sounds really cool to stick my timed based effects like delay & reverb
in that line before the power amp. That way you get those effects post
overdrive where they are best. It's a trick I learned with my Marshall Plexi and a Hot Plate only it was all about
cutting volume with that one not boosting.

Nice! I'm planning on doing a few simple builds over the winter. I've got the parts together already. A 5E3 is on the top of my list.

Nice amps guys.

I have an old SUNN MODEL T, I dont use it anymore, it has 6550 tubes in it, its like a very loud fender to my ears, very clear, if you want a nasty sound you have to overdrive it with either a very hot pickup or some sort of distortion pedal.

My main amp is a Mesa Triple Rec, which I have 6V6s power tubes in adn I changed the red tubes to something else also. I run it on half power, cause the guys said if I run it full power I will probably put too much voltage into the 6V6s. I just love the sound of this amp. I have used 6L6s, EL84s and even used these little yellpow jacket step down deals to put EL 84s in it, but once I put the 6V6s in I was hooked.

My little Amp is Mesa Subway Rocket, very underated amp in my opinion. It has 2 EL84s, which articulate "mistakes" more than other tubes if that makes sense, I love it for recording, take a LP, a TS and it is just magic classic rock tone in a small package.

I also have a POD PRO preamp which Im very fond of for recording. And I use it as a reference tone, cause it has all sorts of pre-set amp tones that I can play with and experiment with.

LIke I said about, that Fractual Axxis rig would be awesome, of course I would want a 2:90 Mesa power amp and run stereo into my Mesa 4x12 cab if I had one, so I guess Im just meant to carry around a 4x12, to me nothing replaces to live sound of a 4x12 cab for the thing and the thunk I like to hear.

Dang it . . .

Now you have me wondering what my CLASS 5 would sound like in a 4x12.

You should try it sometime. Small tube amps sound much less compressed and bigger through big cabs. A Class 5 would sound awesome through a 412 cab.

You should try it sometime. Small tube amps sound much less compressed and bigger through big cabs. A Class 5 would sound awesome through a 412 cab.

Certainly in no position to purchase one, perhaps I can find a guitarist local whom has one and would be willing to let my give it a go.

I'll tell you what George Ive got a couple of 4x12, so just send the little Marshall up to TN and I will check it out and send you some videos samples!

J/K

Actually George from what Ive heard of Jericho March, you probably are better off with a open back combo.

I play some pretty heavy music that just has to have that thunka thunka sound and I just dont hear that in your music.

The early Zep albums Page used a little Supro amp, and used various micing techniques to get the sounds.

Another example if Funk 49, James Gang, Joe Walsh used a Fender Champ, 10-15 watts, and to me thats just a nasty ass guitar sound.

But if you are going to play something along the lines of Crazy Train, where you are pedaling on the A string for the verses, I think a 4x12 just does it so much easier.

Thinking more on it, you could probably get a 1 speaker matching cab for it with a sealed back and miced up would get the same sound.

I think for me its really just a look, an image thing, last night I had all these guitarist between sets wanting to look over my amp and pedal board, and of course my Les Pauls, I took 2 LPS and my Ibanez and the consensus from my band mates was that the Les Pauls ate the Ibanez's lunch tone wise. And I have to agree with them, those damn LPs just have this real aggresive bite that I guess is my sound these days.

Plus if something aint broke why try to fix it.

Guitar is all about the soul you put into it, the touch of your fingers, and like I told you on here a long time ago, using the volume and tone controls on the guitar to manipulate your sounds.

Just keep working on playing guitar, my ultimate goal in playing is to be able to play anything that pops into my head, Ive still got a ways to go.

ROCK ON

JW nails it here. Use the tools you need to get the job done. We all know that a small 1x12 15w amp can bring the tone and is plenty loud to run with a drummer, but let's be honest. Sometimes it really is about the image.

If you are playing old school classic rock from the 60s and 70s, country or jazz, nobody really cares about your amp as long as it sounds good. If you are playing late 70s & 80s stadium rock and metal, you better bring a stack. Covering VH, AC/DC, G&R, Metallica, Iron Maiden and Ozzy with a 1x12 combo just looks wrong no matter how good the guitar tone is. Massive gear is just part of the shtick so you better break out the dolly, the 18" subs and the 4x12 cabs.

Whatever tools work for you are ok in my book. It's your gig after all. For me, after gigging for 40 yrs I am out of the heavy moving and storage business. I don't do metal and if it weighs more than 50 lbs it stays in my studio. YMMV