Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

ok so is there any songs i should learn... here's some of the stuff i can play

favor house atlantic by coheed and cambria
in keeping secrets of silent earth by coheed and cambria
behind blue eyes by the who
blue and yellow by the used
a bunch of worship songs
love is a battle field by pat benetar

songs i'm currently learning

stair way to heaven by led zipplin
land of confusion by genesis
welcome home by coheed and cambria
you had me at hello by a day to remember

You should continue to learn songs, because ear training is very important, but you should also concentrate on learning all chord forms and as many progressions as possible, learn and memorize the cycle of 4th's and 5th's and learn and memorize all 7 modes Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Mixolydian, Lydian, Aeolian, Locrian. These seven modes will improve your soloing ability by light years they are also the best finger excersizes because once you memorize them go thru them everytime you practice you will develope your ear to where when they are used in music they will jump out at you, also they are great for improving muscle memory (teaching your fingers to move independently from one another).
Most of all be patient because music is a journey and the only way to become a virtuoso on your instrument is that it just takes time and a lot of hard work. Music is like anything else in life the more you learn the easier it is to learn more. Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.

J

Man that was really succenct. I just copied your post to put into my practice book.

Now all I have to do is figure out what the hell you are taliking about.

Yes, & there's those fantastic chord structures to learn, as well - the Dylanian, the Townshendian, the Hendrixian, the Lennonian & McCartnian...

That may look & sound ridiculous (& it IS, kinda), but, my point is that songwriters often do not have all of that stuff under their belts. In fact, some of them (Dylan, for example) wrote using the KISS concept quite well. Some ppl do best by using their gut instinct. Learning covers is a great way to learn chord combos & such, but one can get too caught up in the learning process, & end up losing in the creative dept.

One of the things I always tried to get my students to do is to learn, say, a diminished chord in the context of a song like "When I'm 64," by Lennon/McCartney. Then I'd show it to them in another song, perhaps even one of my own taht they couldn't possibly have heard before. After that, I'd try to get them to USE it in an original composition, just to be sure that they understood how to use the damned thing. It was only when they'd used it in a context all their own, that I could be sure that they understood both the chord itself & its application. Keep stirring the pot of creativity as much as you can as you learn by applying those new concepts as you go, & you will theoretically set a standard both of using new techniques & being more creative in your approach to any given piece.

The modes improved my improv skills 100%. Here's a simple breakdown where W = Whole note(2 frets) and H = Halfnote (1 fret). R = Root

1. Ionian R W W H W W W H
2. Dorian R W H W W W H W
3. Phrygian R H W W W H W W
4. Lydian R W W W H W W H
5. Mixolydian R W W H W W H W
6. Aeolian R W H W W H W W
7. Locrian R H W W H W W W

A mode is a 7 note scale that is made up of set intervals. Note each mode is actually the same set of intervals, but starts on the second note of the previous one. Example: If you play Ionian in C you would go C D E F G A B C. (do re mi fa so la ti do). Dorian in D would be D E F G A B C D. (re mi fa so la ti do re). This is a simplification, but once you understand it, it opens up a whole new way of looking at your leads.

In every great guitarist interview, they basically say the same thing, "LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN SO YOU CAN JUST FORGET ABOUT IT AND PLAY!"

Sans, you can probably go to ask.com and search for all these items if you are learning the cycle of 4th's and 5ths it is best to memorize the corresponding flats (4th's) and sharps (5th's). You probably already know the Ionian (C major scale) the modes are the seven anscient scales from the 14th century (I beleive) they noticed how much mathematics and cycles had corresponded with music theory. The chord forms are the different ways to play chords up the neck I. E. chord forms 1,2,3,4.
I learned and memorized the modes about 20 years ago it took me a year to memorize them along with the B.S. of playing in bands and I still run thru them at least once a week. These things that I have mentioned whether or not you can read standard notation will really take a lot of the guess work out of playing music. Before I learned the modes I always wondered what is that scale they are using now 90% of the time I can hear it almost immediately oh! thats the Lydian. Also I should have said learning and memorizing these modes will improve your soloing abilities light years over (time). There is no instant in learning to play music unless of coarse your name is Yngvei Malmsteen. As Crip has previosely indicated you have to practice your ass off if you want to improve your playing skills. Organize your practice. I call it studying because if you have your practice time organized properly you want to maximize the knowledge you retain just like when you were in college. Also as Ratsass just posted Learn everything you can so you can just forget about it and play. What they mean by this is learn it untill it becomes automatic and you don't really have to think about it. You can just do it and there are times when I am performing and reach a point during some of the solo's I am improvising over and I am completely free I can go where ever I want it's like a bunch of forks in the road that all lead to the same final destination. It really is a cool feeling.

There is so much knowledge about music out there and so much of it makes perfect sense sometimes and none at all at other times (but maybe will later on). Some of it is just pure fun to know. I had a manual on Sequential Circuits Prophet 5 and they had a story in there about the mathematics of music. A440 means a string vibrating 440 times per second creates an A note. You probably knew this already but did you know that this was used in coming up with the 12 notes per octave? And that it does not divide up perfectly, just was the closest that they could get it? There is no perfect tuning for any stringed instrument (unless it's fretless). A piano can be tuned a few cents either way and sound in tune but mathematically, they aren't quite there. The old masters knew this and had such good ears that they could tell the difference in the two tunings and usually had two pianos at home, one tuned one way and one the other. It actually made a difference in how they wrote specific songs.
Just some useless information rattling around where my brain ought to be.

stair way to heaven by led zipplin

sacrilege man....


btw, is that indeed the bird you're flippin us all in that avatar?

just curious..

ratsass wrote:The modes improved my improv skills 100%. Here's a simple breakdown where W = Whole note(2 frets) and H = Halfnote (1 fret). R = Root

1. Ionian R W W H W W W H
2. Dorian R W H W W W H W
3. Phrygian R H W W W H W W
4. Lydian R W W W H W W H
5. Mixolydian R W W H W W H W
6. Aeolian R W H W W H W W
7. Locrian R H W W H W W W

Excellent post Rat!

let me elaborate with harmonic formulas too:

1. Ionian 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (Major Scale)
2. Dorian 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
3. Phrygian 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
4. Lydian 1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7
5. Mixolydian 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7 (Dominant mode)
6. Aeolian 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7 (Natural Minor mode)
7. Locrian 1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7 (Half Diminished mode)

Shut and Play Guitar!

Some good info from you guys. I tend to forget a lot of this stuff. I really need to get my Gridmoire book back out and go thru some of it again. Maybe that would get me out of my funk.

My goal playing has always been to look effortless, If you see some of the pictures I post of gigs with me standing by folks playing, a lot of times Im having a conversation with them and all the while soloing my ass off...........................................................

Most bands in my area. The guitarist all look like they are concentrating too hard. I mean how hard is it to play music anyway, especially something thats 3 chord rock n roll, its not rocket science.

Everyone says Im awesome, I just tell them I have a tape deck in the back of my guitar. I kid about this, but one night this dude went up and picked up my guitar and was looking at it. It bothered me cause he didnt ask, So I said "U like Les Pauls", he says "No, I was looking for the tape in the back"

jw123 wrote:Shut and Play Guitar!


Most bands in my area. The guitarist all look like they are concentrating too hard. I mean how hard is it to play music anyway, especially something thats 3 chord rock n roll, its not rocket science.

hahah thats because you are seasoned pro JW!

I can zone out and have fun solos with blues, rock and metal.

It's jazz and fusion that makes me toil and sweat.

Man, I toil and sweat just taking my guitar down off the wall hanger.

Great information dudes. Thanks.

I will do my best to take some advantage of all this before my wife makes me get a job.

fishdrownnair wrote:ok so is there any songs i should learn...

Learn whatever you enjoy. No matter how many scales you practice or modes you memorize, when you get right down to it, you have to enjoy what you're doing.

Pick songs you like. Every song has something to teach you. Sometimes what may interest you in a particular song is just a verse riff, or a solo, or a neat little lick. Learn what interests you.

If you are always interested in what you're learning then you'll never stop.

btw, is that indeed the bird you're flippin us all in that avatar?

just curious..

yes i am

and thanks guys i didn't understand alot of it cause i play by hear and don't even know to read music. but i will practice and come up with something amazing and post it.

fishdrownnair wrote:

btw, is that indeed the bird you're flippin us all in that avatar?

just curious..

yes i am

and thanks guys i didn't understand alot of it cause i play by hear and don't even know to read music. but i will practice and come up with something amazing and post it.

DUDE!!! YOU ARE MY HERO!!! Yeah, I am a chick, but I can still kick some ass at Guitar. I need someone to help me get better, I want to start a band, but i am not having any luck. I would love to get to know you and mabey learn some things from you.

Rock on my Fellow Rocker!!!

Signed,
Sarina
AKA
Tx_Rocker16