General Music Chat

Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forums. Please take it easy on me. Our band just got 2 gigs for May canceled and its my fault. No question about it. But what I want feedback on is ,,"when is a bands playing too loud"??? What circumstances have you run into with the same problem?

We are a blues/rockabilly group. We do a few originals and mostly older 40's 50's 60's blues rock tunes. My guitar player is from TX and formerly played as a power trio. Jimi, Stevie, and mostly TX blues genre. At first we had to work on getting him to play a little lower than he was accustomed so we could get our vocals heard. We are tight, well rehearsed and have played a number of places over the past couple years with only one place leveling complaints. The one we got canceled at. This place is a converted convenience store now a burger cafe with beer . They built a small take at one end with mirror up top on the wall, the refrigerated cases with glass doors line one wall and big plate glass windows on front wall from waist high to the ceiling. NO curtains or shades on windows. Ceiling is NOT accoustical, looks like painted sheetrock about 9 feet. Floor is harder than cement its Terazzo like in the malls past. There is no sound baffling of any kind. The owner originally had a small sound system in place, with Yamaha 15's and not enough power Yamaha powered mixer. We have been playin this place for about 8 months now once a month. In the beginning the sound was terrible there, so I started taking some room dividers accoustic panels with legs and stood them around the room to soak up some of the junk. They complainted about volume a little every time, but we simply played a bit quieter and that was all needed.
I spoke with the owner about how bad his room sounds, he is in the furniture biz and says he as tons of foam and will make some adjustments. I offered to help and advise his guys what to make up and where to put them,,been doing this for 8 months to no action from him.
When we have had the place full of people the sound is always better and I take our gear and set it all up so there is good power for his haning speakers. Last week there were only 14-18 people there , 8-10 were under 50 and the rest 60+ . Within 2 songs the over 60's went outside and complained to the owners mom that he had promised the music would not be loud and they wanted us to play quieter. She approached me right in the middle of a vocal verse of a song to request me to turn down.Walked right up to me in mid-verse. After the song was over I had the guys play an instrumental so i could walk around again and make sure we were not too loud,,to me all was well and we were at lower volume than most places we play, these folks want to be able to hold a conversation while eating and want us at a Db under that I guess.
This is when I messed up. I told the lady running the cafe I didnt want this to be the last time we play here, but unless they do something about the room echo and bounce we would be playing at home. I offered again to help with treatments and she promised me to get her son to take care of it and he would call me for advice. Well, today she calls cancels our 2 nights for May and says he is not going to be doing any room alterations.
Very pleasant as usual and she always dances and personally never complained about volume.
The other bands they book there seem to make it ok. I know of another group they said they will not ask back because they are hard rock and really loud. But we are the only group playin our kind of music there, most doing classic rock and country, and some folks singers.
I really have to miss the $300- bux for a 3 hours on Friday nights, its like getting paid to practice, I kinda blew it I guess.
Would some of you please share your experience with this kind of problem, sorry for long rant and thanks in advance, Jeff Bluemax

Hey, Jeff. Welcome to the forum and to the world of "It's too loud!". Anyone who has been playing in a live band has experienced this at one time or another, so don't sweat it too much. I've always played in fairly loud rock n roll bands over the years and have run into that problem a lot. Being a guitarist, I know you have to play at a certain volume to get "that sound", but innovations in modern effects pedals and amps has made it easier to get a decent sound even at a low volume. I've played in small clubs, cafes, coffee shops, and more where you have to keep it down, and I've learned how to pull it off and still have fun. Once we were asked to play at a school reunion to people from 18 to 80. When we got there, it turned out to be mostly 60 to 80, but we just played softer and talked with the people about the volume and it turned out great. The lady that hired me said everyone loved the band and that we were the favorite of all the bands they had hired in the past. I would suggest that, if you want to keep that gig, try working with your own personal equipment (amps and drums) to get a good sound and being able to feel good about it at a low volume. Maybe invest in a smaller amp that will do the job (I got a Roland Cube 30 that is perfect for smaller venues) and have your drummer practice with those multi-rods or brushes for a softer sound with the same feel. If you feel you can pull it off, contact the lady and tell her what you have been doing so she knows that you are trying. If you can get a good low stage volume, and then a larger crowd shows up, you can just turn the PA up. Hope this helps some.

I think the issue is probably more about attendance than anything. In my case i play in a hard rock band, but we ussually draw enough people that are there to see us that we get around sound issues. If you only brought 18 people to my club I would be looking for a band that would bring people in the house. This is a business.

And for the record we have recently had a similiar situation that we have had to deal with. I wouldnt take offense to someone coming up midsong, Put the shoe on the other foot.

The person complains to the owner "If you dont get them to turn down now Im leaving" , the owner just responded to the complaint immediately. Remember the old saying the customer is always right. You as a paid musician are simply an employee. When you made demands on the business owner, They sit back and think these people arent bringing a crowd, are trouble makers cause they are too loud, and now they want us to spend some money.

Look at this from the outside instead of thru your eyes and you will see whats going on.

You also state that you are unique for the music you play. When you look at places to play you need to fit into some sort of format. My band gets away playing hard core country establishments. Why? Cause we bring in more people than any other band in the area. Maybe you need to bend your song choices to better fit the places you are trying to play.

Donat take what Ive said as negative. Years ago we got asked to leave after half of our first set. Fired on the spot. It just happens sometimes, but learn from it so it doesnt happen again.

As the guys stated, a very common problem. In my experience, this happens almost exclusively to cover bands. I've played in both cover and original bands for over thirty years and it's happened a few times in the cover bands, never in an original band. And as JW mentioned, if the place is packed the owner is less likely to pull the plug; if only a thin crowd be ready to pack up. Also the venue size has a big effect; if a place is too small for our normal volume I will either turn the gig down or play acoustic. Best of luck next time.

I agree with Jimmy, in my area the original venues tend to be the high volume rooms. Ussually there are 2-6 bands playing in one night.

As a cover band you have to either bring a crowd or make the people there happy.

how the heck did you write that much stuff without getting logged off. You should hear the sound you get when you slave 4 road kings with 4 stacks,keep breakin windows , but they can hear it all the way to PORT JEFF.
IF IT'S TO LOUD YOUR TO OLD,
P.S. These guys are posting some good stuff ,read it , take it to heart, Alot of been there done that wisdom.

P.S.S.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING A GOOD AND FUN TRACK.

yah small venues like this are the exact reason I wanted to get an acoustic electric (the electric part mostly just so you can have the luxuries of you essential pedals that I don't own yet) but if you're the only band playing what you do there, you should really strive for an acoustic sound, smaller amps/ or acoustic guitars and bass, brushes for the drums, or a kit that you could use for smaller venues, like a couple of bongos or somethin and a snare, maybe no bass drum does sound like they want to yammer while having a quiet band going on the stage, I dunno, maybe expand your gigs to find a place you can play at your idea of reasonable

WHAT?

..sorry I didnt have time to read all that dude but -- good tune-- "workin too hard" liked that! -As far as playing too loud, it's up to you or your sound-man or your amps volume according to the club you're in and the audience ( if they're cupping their ears- turn it down 1 1/2 notches) .. lol ..

I can't see playing blues/rockabilly too loud. If you can't clearly understand the vocals then it's too loud. The most disappointing show I ever saw was Canned Heat in a small club. Ear-splitting, deafening, loudest noise I ever heard. I left after two songs. What a disappointment. I've been in blues bands for thirty years and yes at times we've been too loud. It's a sin to be too loud. Sometimes we get all revved up and play some music too loud. I know it's hard to hold back, but when the audience starts evacuating it could only mean two things, you're too loud or the music sucks (or both). Pay attention to your audience. They'll tell you right away if something's wrong. Be ready to rectify the situation FAST...

I played with a band in Houston in the 80's. We played in a primarily country bar that was run by a little oriental lady maybe 5 feet tall. Maybe. She kept telling ue we were too loud, turn down. We never got kicked out or cancelled, she hired us again and again for over 2 years.

I ended up bringing my Fender Champ for the 1st two sets, and would have to keep the volume at about 4 or so, the drummer would use pencils to play, she wanted it that quiet. The lead singer (bad singer and alcoholic too) also played acoustic, he didn't even plug it in the first set...

Fortunately I've never been fired for being too loud but have been asked to turn down a few times. I try to be very careful about my own volume level, I'm very aware that guitar players have a reputation for playing too loud, and it happens but I'm not often asked by the band to turn down.

In the cases the club owner asks you to turn it down, your only option is to be polite and cooperative and do as he asks. Anything else and you're out the door.

Thanks for the feedback ya'll. We have been keeping the sound pretty good there and vocal punch thru well except for the pinging from all the glass. And my guitarist have decided to get together tonite and work up our same format accoustic, jsut the 2 of us, him on git and backing vocals, I'll sing and blow harp. I should have done this long ago. Thanks for the reminder.
And then,,, this morning a friend called to tell me the cafe owner is 3 months behind in rent, the local cops hate him because he has an elite attitude and runs a hot dog stand and they have no biz. So it appears it was easier to say we are canceling you because "we aren't going to buff the room for sound and don't want you mad at us"?? than to say,,hey we can't afford to do this anymore.
Thanks for compliments on the song. Bluemax

Bluemax its good to constantly be developing new places to play.

4 places my band has played over the past year have either closed or changed management. I recently went into a place weve played quite a bit and done real well with. It had a new manager, I said I came to see about booking another sat night. He says my procedure is to have new groups come in during the week and play our steak night so I can see what you can do before I book a weekend. We played the place 6 monthes ago, did the door and came away with $950 bucks and the guy wants us to prove ourselfs. I passed on the gig. I was nice, I just said we cant do weeknights because of our regular jobs but would love to come back and try to pack the place like we did last time. The bartender was telling him while I was standing there that our group was on of the top draws theyve had in there over the past yr.

If the folks are having trouble making their rent, I would say cut your losses and move on to the next place that will hire you.

Good Luck

Welcome Jeff. It's good to have some Carolina guys on the board!!

Anyway, yes to the problem being common. Unfortunately, a lot of these small mom & pop venues around GSO, Southern Pines, anywhere really... aren't willing to make changes to their venues to make them sound better. If they aren't musicians themselves, they may not understand the concept of sound as it relates to HARD SURFACES EVERYWHERE AROUND THE ROOM. I think that its great that you offered your advise to make the room sound better, and I think that they will probably listen to that advise in about another year when they are tired of the midrange and treble frequencies bouncing off the Torrezo flooring, sheetrock, furniture, etc. I think your idea of an acoustic set in a venue like that is great, and it should sound really good in a sound environment like that. I hate to hear the owner is having a hard time, but with that kind of attitude, it sounds like he's bringing it on himself.

I absolutely agree with JW -- move on brother! There are some really good venues to play in your surrounding area of NC; you'll get hired at another place that is actually worth playing at! If you guys come up to GSO, let me know and I'll come check out your band. I'll have a listen to your music when I get home after work.