Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Oh my Gawd what a day, I need advise. As I have said in recent post I got up off my lazy arse and booked some cool gigs and last night we played the coolest gig real nice place the owner was nice and gave us the best advertisement. Anyway Ratsass you will understand this because it goes with a recent thread of yours about how under appreciated the leader of a band is. I don't even know where to start with this so here it goes. I have had some problems with our bass player in the past he is a good bass player not great but good and a decent singer anyway he sometimes has some kind of drama going that effects whether or not he can show for a gig and I mean the same day of the gig. One time he was boinking this girl that was boinking another guy at the same time and when he discovered this he called me on the morning of the gig crying and said he couldn't play because he was to upset well me being a nice guy I said don't worry about it and found a sub and I pulled the gig off with flying colors (i frikken got lucky) and found a phenomenal bass player and had a good buddy help me out. I have been patient with this guy beyond my limits any way he calls me this morning from the emergency room, the day of our coolest gig and tells me his daughter is sick and may have phenumonia well this has gone from my back hurts and my doctor has told me not to hold my bass from my girlfriend is boinking another guy to my job wants me to be out of town on the night i have commited to play a gig with ya'll and he knows about these gigs months in advance I am trying to be as unbiased as possible here. My problem with this guy is he doesn't just call me the day of the gig saying I can't make it (even though he doesn't book a damn thing)
I want you people that do this to pay attention, if you have committed to a gig and you can't make it it is your responsibilty to find a sub this guy calls me and oh so cold heartedly tells me he can't make the gig and doesn't offer any sollution it's just hey buddy its your problem I guess I am just a f**kin sucker here but I am ready to replace this ass and he doesn't even have a clue but of course his daughter was sick and had just the begining of phenumonia and her mom could have stayed at the hospital with her during the gig and he could have went there after the gig and stayed with his daughter please advise me I am emotional and needing rational advise!

J... You always respond to my dilemmas with "straight-up" advice. You have to figure out what is more important in this situation (unless he can be replaced in a second)... Is your sanity or his availability to play gigs #1?? I think my band "PanikAtack" rushed when they wanted my singer gone who pulled the same crap that your bassist is pulling... and he wasn't the greatest but it all was good... I honestly think we should've held in there and put up with his sh¡t until we found another permanent singer... I'ts going on 2 months now and we've had maybe 5 vocalist promise to come audition whereas in reality only one came down and he sucked!! I'm at my wits end here because the other guys are the most awesome musicians I've ever played with and we've got this magic chemistry between us but their interest in continuing this is starting to fade as we are all in other projects. I DON'T WANT IT TO FADE... I have regrets now, not talking the guys into keeping him and just keep gigging out till someone comes along... My other band is more of a "Classic Rock" band and has nowhere near the power or "magic" PanikAtack" had so I'm now left with this empty feeling until the right singer comes along.... will you regret your move??? I do

I feel like Ann Landers starting out with, "Dear, At Wits End."
Yeah, J, I feel your pain (in the a$$). Being in Houston, it seems like it would be easy to find another bassist, maybe a much better one, even one that sings. But you're torn because this time he had a semi-good excuse. You don't want to be the heartless bastid that fires a man while his little girl is in the hospital. No one else would see your side of it. What to do, what to do? Do you have any other bassists in mind for the job? It's easier to get understanding from someone outside of the band, so I would talk to another bassist that might fit the bill, and tell him exactly what's going on, and if he's cool about waiting for it to happen again, keep him in the wings. Get him a list of your songs and get together and work with him on them. Be ready. Then, the next time your bassist calls on one days notice, tell him, "Ok, man, but if I have to replace you for tonight, I'm replacing you for good." Put the ball in his court.
Crip's right about not getting rid of someone until you have a sure fire replacement. I mean, you have to look at it as a business, especially if you are the band leader. Most companies have a policy that, if you miss too many days, even if you have good excuses, you're gone. You could tell your current bass player this, but, knowing how temperamental musicians can be, he might just up and quit if he knows it'll put you in a bind. How you handle this is up to you, as you know him and can probably guess how he'd react. If he's a good friend and you really want to keep him, talk with him, tell him your side of the story. And do it soon, while it's still heavy on your mind. He should see the emotional grief he's causing you, as you've put up with his emotional stuff in the past. If he doesn't, he never will and you really should move on. That's the tricky thing about bands, they are a business and a brotherhood. Makes it tough, so what you have to do is look at it from the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" perspective. If someone will do you wrong and not care, why should you feel bad about doing the right thing for the band.
This is my take on the situation. Lord knows, I've been through this before and will again. I have a drummer who I've played with off and on for over 25 years. He'll do great for awhile and then get in a habit of showing up late for gigs or not showing up at all for rehearsals without calling. I've fired him three or four times but eventually, we'll get together and play again. I love him like a brother, but when he screws up too much, he's gone.
Hopefully some of our other bandmix friends will have more opinions and more options that we haven't talked about yet. That's why I love this forum. There's two sides to every story, but six sides to every box. And then there's more who think outside the box, so it's an infinite supply of good ideas.
Hope all works well for you. Hell, if I was closer, I'd play bass with ya.

Hmmmmmm

I've been on the other end of that coin twice in my life. The first time was years and years ago when I missed 3 rehearsals in a row. My life was a mess back then so I understand to a point. I was duly sacked.

The other time was more recently but this time and again rehearsals I just came out and was honest about having problems maintaining the schedule.

*** Each of the above are about rehearsals. ***

If there was a gig? I've never missed one, called in late, indeed I've been the one arranging things from bottom upwards, picking people up and making the calls.

Gigs are hard enough to come by in any case and we all know the date, time and place. Tough call this one for sure and I think you'll just have to let it go, (this time).

Yea, this is a tough one.. In HaleAmano, Ryan books everything. But he wants that responsibility. He likes the feeling of being the leader when it comes to dealing with people, the money, the merch, etc.. He's the only one who has all of the contacts concerning managers, promoters, venues, ect..He's our spokesman and our most talented all around musician. So naturally he feels like the lone leader.

But in reality, I lead the band when it comes to this band actually being functional. I provide the band with all guitar setups, guitars and amps, tuners, mics, pa, all the way down to the cords. I'm the one who sets up our live operation when it has no house equipment, and most of the tear-down.. Because well, it's mainly my stuff anyway.

I also provide the band with a practice place (my house), and a way to record demos (my house and equipment also). But I take on that leadership role so Ryan can do his thing.

Just last night a couple of band members gave me huge props for never missing practices. Even on off nights people are welcome to come by and record ideas, or have some one on one practices with me. Or sometimes learn how to fix and maintain equipment.

Damn man.. Now that I look at that, I'm a f**king baddass band member to have. Hahaha

But for the most part, most musicians don't want those roles. They just want to do their thing and leave it up to other people to do those things while they fart around. Over the years I just learned to accept that. But I also learned that they are also replaceable. Some people just weren't born leaders. I couldn't begin to count the number of musicians I've run across that weren't self motivated. Give them a month off, and they won't even so much as pick up their instrument for that month. They never become secured members in any band, and float around from band to band bitchin about how they were treated so badly by all of their past bands.

BUT!! Then there are people like IZ. In this band, Iz has by far the most vocal talent. All we ask of Iz is to keep his voice golden and be there when we need him. And he always is. So we don't mind doing what we do for him. He writes a lot of songs and he sings them like a champ. He performs live like a champ. So we treat him like one. He has no car, no money, but he's always available, and we'll find a way to get him.

I guess my point is, it depends on his level of talent. If Iz was only a half-assed singer, maybe we may not be too willing to put up with his shortcomings. It sounds kinda harsh, but it's just the reality of how people and bands are. He doesn't really handle anything. All he really has is his Ukulele and his voice. But we consider Iz to be a leader in this band for his talents alone. He writes and performs what I consider to be the best original songs we have. And believe me, he likes that role. He's not considered replaceable.

If this band is having a problem with another member, we usually look to Ryan to try to straighten it out or start looking for another one. That's part of his role. But we also leave it up to him to decide ultimately what he wants to do regarding replacing the person or not. we've gone through a bass player, drummer, and now a keyboard player within a matter of months.

We're kind of lucky though. If we're missing a Bass player or keyboard player or both, or even myself, Ryan plays those instruments. He's had to do his own fill-ins. No bass player tonight?? No problem. Ryan will play Bass tonight. Etc.. That's his department. Because it's up to him to either cancel or do it or find someone else. It's not like I know who he booked the show with. And he's the only one who has the numbers of the other fill-in musicians. We haven't had to cancel a show since I've been in this band though.

Broke a string? Mic ain't working? Forgot your amp?? No problem.. That's my department. Got a backup guitar tuned and ready to go right here. Rewired and strung it 2 days ago. Try this mic. or this cord. Don't worry man, I brought 2 amps. Iz can go direct. Soundguy, turn the treble down on your board, this mic is more high strung than the other one. Etc..But if someone is repeatedly abusing my equipment, or not maintaining it, or leaving it in a parking-lot or some sh*t ?? Go buy your own..And if you can't, then I guess you can't play with the band can you??

I know this is a long post, but sometimes people need to see that others go through the same thing. You're not alone with the leadership thing. And it comes in different forms. We all go through it. Unfortunately, your role is defined, and you have to handle these things. The only advice I can give you is to just determine how valuable the guy is to the band VS his reliability, and make a conscious decision.

If it's detrimental to the business, then that's obviously your department, and you have to fix it somehow. Be creative. Talk to the other members about how they can lift some of the stresses off your work-load so you won't be at your wits end.

He is living the life of a cockroach. Step on him and move on.
Men with no integrity deserve nothing from men with integrity.
And that is my kindest recomendation.
To make arrangemets for him only empowers him to continue to live like a cockroach. Dont empower him.
Time for the tough love. Tell him you will no longer accept his lack of integrity and be done with him.

I am with Sans..

The first time someone cancels the day of a show, that's pretty much it.

I don't care about your girl or wtfever your excuse is. (everyone has one)

The band is only a sum of it's parts and 1 out, means it's incomplete.

If he did this 1 time, it's forgivable.. More than 1 time and it's faq u charlie.

Use this dick until you find a better replacement, then tell him goodbye.

unreliable = permanently invisible or at least invisible when you need him the most.

People like this bass player provide a freelancer like me work.
Now if I were in your situation I'd summon the logic side of me and put away rash emotions aside for the time being, do not confront the guy, no ultimatums make him think that he is still part of the band while quietly look for a replacement.

Better to have an unrealable bass player then none, what you need is time to search for a bass, once you find it then is the time to do what is needed regarding the unrealable member.

Good luck.

Thanks guy's for your advise, that is what some people don't understand about this forum is it is also an emotional support group for musicians.
He is replaceable and I have fired way better musicians for a lot less and I have thick skin I can take alot but the emotional grief he has caused me tells me it is time to move on but this time I will do it the easy way Crip and Ratsass you both have valid points and I am considering the fact that this time he had a good excuse but last night he told me he has reinjured his back and the way I am thinking is what happens the next time his daughter gets sick or the doctor tells him not to hold his bass. He really doesn't care about the emotional grief he is causing me because as Sans said if I continue to enable him his behavior won't change.
Ironically another local bass player showed up at the gig last night whom I have admired (his playing) for years and I have watched him play but he has never seen me play and last night I was tearin it up I have a way of taking negetive energy and making something positive with it thru my playing. Anyway my wife who runs sound went over to talk to him and she said it was uncanny the way he see's music and bands the same way I do. I am torn between should I let it slide, the first time he did this after the breakup with his girlfriend I had told one of the guy's in the band if this doesn't happen often I can overlook it but damn it I have been thru two divorces sick kids and way more and I never have missed a gig as someone said they are to hard to come by especially one like last night this place had a green room that was about 900 square feet with a big screen plasma t.v., a pool table this place is FREAKIN NICE! and they treated us like kings.
My 3 choices in this matter the way I see it is;

1. fire him now and cause myself some heartache as we have gigs lined up and I can find a sub to meet these obligations but I have done this before and it really is the hard way.
2. Keep my trap shut and look for someone who really fills the spot better than he does this way we are taking a step forward instead of a step backward. but the replacement could turn out to be a flake once you get to know them.
3. Just overlook it and hope it doesn't happen again.

I am leaning more toward no. 2

Jam 1 time with the new guy in private..

If he's still looking good to you, dump the zero and grab the hero..

Yes, Monte, I'll take door number two!

If I had a choice of keeping a known flake or replacing him with someone who may or may not turn out to be a flake...

I'm with fret & ratsass on this one, myself. Find a replacement, THEN dump the chump. It's the only way you'll feel any kind of security booking gigs in the future.

Good luck with all that.

Thanks guy's this is something I wanted to get your insite on because I was pretty pissed yesterday and I wasn't thinking rationally. There is a good amount of checks and balances on here and I knew I would get good advise here and I knew ya'll would be honest even if it was something I didn't want to hear but maybe needed to. Thanks again.

Jeff.....

I'm a little late to this tea party but for what it's worth: dump the dude. I don't care if you have a gig at Shea Stadium, it's not worth it. There's a country full of people out of work right now and many of them are bass players. Unfortunately we're going through the same thing: last Saturday we had a show and the drummer showed up drunk. Again. The band had a meeting (without him) and we all agreed he is gone. I've already got some auditions set up this week. A lot of people want the fantasy but aren't willing to work for it.

Hear! hear! Jimmy!

I understand the valid points of the working musicians about using a turd till you can find a crayon.

My point is this simply:

This type of behavor is expected and most always tolerated by the music industry as a whole.
That is why it exists.
As a Nurse I see so called professionals call off work for the lamest reasons. (like minstral cramps or soccer games)
When I worked for Mobil Oil. It simply was not tolerated, PERIOD!
I worked with men in their 60's whom had been with the company 40 years, and NEVER MISSED A DAY OF WORK!!!!
The company followed their written polacy to the letter.
If we as musicians adhear to a zero tolerance for bullshit, long enough, we will have zero bullshit soon enough.