Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

After almost a year of playing again. Its happened again. I was told sat night that we were just too damn loud! Ive gone thru every configuration of amps that I own and wound up with my half stack again. We were playing this typical for us honky tonk deal. And a lot of the crowd moved out of the band room back into the bar area, so we kind of got the attitude thing going and hit hard musically into an area that we dont ussually get into. Of course with the open room and little people we got pretty loud. Silver lining the club still loves us and pays us what we want to be there. Middle of the last set a couple of the gals that dance at our shows came up and asked us to play some dance music, which we did. The dance floor filled up for the last half of the set. While we were tearing down I asked some of our regular folks what was wrong tonight. A couple said man it was just too loud. I think that as guitarist with a band you kind of set the volume floor for the whole band. We have a pretty good pa that will cleanly get on up there. I guess I got pigheaded and just decided to let it rip and play guitar. My sound guy told me a number of times that I should cut back, and in typical guitar fashion I ignored him.

I realize I need to get back to the drawing board on the volume issue and not take the audiences for granted. Of course weve been playing to packed rooms for a while and you can get away with a lot more volume in those situations than when there arent many people in the room.

Just thought I would share this with the form.

I think all musicians and bands should be aware of the volume levels they project.

Have a Great Day!

I always try to play at the lowest possible volume (amplifier volume) I intensionally use the smallest lowest wattage combo tube amp I can find that has good tone. I have chosen the Crate V 32 and I mike it with a Sinheisser 609 e silver series mike, this way our sound person (my wife) has control. We use a 10,000 watt system 2-18's per side and 2-15's with horns per side (8 seperate enclosures) with the tops fanned out like a horizontal array better coveridge of the room this way and you don't have to blast the crowd away. I prefer this set up because in the smaller clubs we just use half the speakers and power. This past Friday we played a small club around 100 people and Yesterday we played a festival with about a thousand this system performed beautifully in both configurations.

Rule of thumb: Always let the PA do most of the work. A better mix to the crowd is always better than a really loud band. Besides that... everyone hears everyone.

I'm guilty of the same thing though. I just had to bite the bullet and trust the sound guy. After playing on many of L.A.'s best stages I learned to turn down. It makes a HUGE difference! Just remember... as long as you can hear yourself, you're good! (Unless the sound guy sucks and doesn't turn you up in the mix.)

jw123 wrote:After almost a year of playing again. Its happened again. I was told sat night that we were just too damn loud! Ive gone thru every configuration of amps that I own and wound up with my half stack again.

Hey, man. I posted something about this a while back...don't know if you read it or tried it. Half stacks are pretty directional to the crowd. You can be peeling someone's flesh off directly in front of the amp, while someone on the side tells you to turn up. I turned my speaker cab backwards facing the back wall about a foot or so away and mic'd it. I got all the sound and sustain I wanted and the sound was dispersed evenly so the sound man had plenty of control. Also it makes people in the crowd looking at your amp say, "WTF?"

Thanks for the replys

I know I was too loud. I got out the ole halfstack in room that only needs a 20 watt amp, in fact the last gig in this venue I used my POD PRO preamp straight into the board. I need to experiment with my pedal board into the preamp, cause Ive gotten back to using my pedals again. Plus the POD has a noise reduction system built in which will cut the noise.

Haley I have turned 4x12 around backwards before, but and this is just me, it kinda kills my tone. Part of playing in a heavy band is feeling the music along with hearing it. I was guilty of overdoing it and I thought that be admitting it publically it might sink in to others that dont have as much experience as Im supposed to have.

Weve got a show in a much bigger room this next weekend and then a couple of outdoor gigs so I may keep on using the halfstack. I have a really god attenuator but wasnt using it sat night.

Or I might just get out my little 20 watt tube amp and use it again.

Decisions Decisions Decisions

I have the same problem pretty often, my Super Reverb sounds great but at 45 watts it's still too loud sometimes. That's one reason I'm glad to have the MX working again, it can give me a very nice clean sound at any volume level, and I can let effects do the rest. My next musical investment is going to be a lower wattage Fender, somehting like a Princeton or a 30 watter. Blues Jr is it? Can't remember...Seriously considered the Peavey Classic 30 but don't like the tone. Too much highs and no bass...I can modify it but would rather not bother with all that hassle, especially since the board is folded into 3 sections and a bear to get out of the case. Crummy design...

At times when I know volume will be a problem beforehand I bring my Fender Champ, it does a great job. I can even still use the MX and have a dual amp rig, it gets a good sound turned that low. But i'm not looking for the maxed out tube amp sound from that one, it's strictly for cleans...

The best guitarist I ever played with was always said to be too loud. Stuff em. He was brilliant and could play anything with a string a pipe or a wind box.

I think what many people fail to see is that if you are a trio or just a 4 piece, without a keyboard there is no filler in music.

People like reverberant sounds and sometimes yes we get it wrong but most times its really just needed. I'm really a drummer though I do play a lot of other things. But man hear me tune the damned things! I get so frustrated because at the end of the day its all about the sound.

Just my two penneth.

Where's mi coat? Ah there you are. Fancy a walk? Yeah lets go!

Cheers.

Chippy

Lower volume is fine, but loss of tone/color is not.

Turn it down, but make sure your sound stays after you do.

I know with my head, the lower the volume, the lower the desired sound/tone/color.

That power soak isn't doing it for you, JW? I thought they allow you to turn down but retain the tonal quality.

A very common problem to be sure, but one that affects mostly cover bands. Most original clubs don't care that much about your volume.

That said, I never face my cabinets towards the crowd. I usually point the speakers at the drummer. This achieves two things: you can play at a higher volume and the drummer will hear you well. If you are having trouble hearing yourself make sure the guitar is in the monitor mix; a lot of soundmen only want to use the monitors for vocals.

the louder you are on stage the harder it is to get a good house mix. I love bustin loud ass but if your lucky enough to have a good soundman, give him a break.
Good job recognizing your own faults JW. I know that's a hard one for a guitarist!

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/

"thems that knows me knows better, thems that dont, dont matter"

Great point Jimmy, thanks!
Yes this helps a whole bunch.

Thanks.

Chippy

jimmydanger wrote:That said, I never face my cabinets towards the crowd. I usually point the speakers at the drummer. This achieves two things: you can play at a higher volume and the drummer will hear you well.

Deal with the tonal problems - your audience won't notice them 9 times out of 10. They WILL notice when you're too loud - EVERY TIME.

When the room clears out, that's usually a pretty good indicator that you've lost them. Once you've lost them, it's damned hard to bring them back, so start at low levels and gradually rise until you see ppl flinch, then back the hell off quick like a bunny!

Most guitarists are so damned involved in their perfect tones that they'll sacrifice the entire band to have that great sound. That really pisses me off as a fellow band member. Don't run out OUR audience so you can sound like you want to. Sacrifice your perfect tone for the good of the band until you can figure out how to use your sh*t right, or get the right sh*t to work with.

Oh, & jimmyd - when a guitarist runs a lick up the neck, he tends to speed up, & when he's running down the neck, he slows down. When your amp is pointed at the drummer, he tends to follow you. Bad move, imho. Drives a wedge between him & the bass player. Any timing fluctuations that occur should happen only at the whim of the front man, not the guitar player or any other member, & in a perfect world, they shouldn't happen at all, unless they're called for in a particular piece of music.

My rule of thumb is to keep the lead guitar volume slightly below the vocals or the singer for riffs and stuff, when playing lead I'll come up a bit to go down again when the vocals comes back in.

"When your amp is pointed at the drummer, he tends to follow you."

Yes, Phil, that's the point. Since I lead the band, this is what I expect. That's why they call it lead guitar. I never let the singer assume this role. The Farleys just celebrated our ten year anniversary using this philosophy.

Glad it works for you, jimmy. It wouldn't for me, but we have different approaches & totally different musical styles. Your drummer is damned good, & you obviously have a good grasp of timing. Your way won't work for everyone, though.

Last drummer I worked with followed the guitarist, & every damned song sped up until I moved the axe-player's amp away from him, & forced him to work with me as the bass guy. Yeah, I pointed MY amp at him to get him off the guitar, but there's that dratted distance thingie where it takes, what, 10 or 15 feet to "get" the sound of the bass? It was a clusterflook for awhile, but I finally got him settled in after moving the guitar amp away, & gave him visual cues.