Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Well I guess things are getting tight for the publishing companys. Anyone who seriously writes music and copywrites are affiliated with one or the other.
I ran into a freind the other night that was telling me about one of the clubs we play at was approached by a publishing co. that wanted royalties from the club owner because he hires cover bands. My question is how can a pub. co. estimate how much royalties they would fairly charge a club owner who hires cover bands. It sounds like a strong arm tactic to me. has anyone else heard of this?

Have heard of it happening in the Tri-State area here in Southeast PA/Delaware/Jersey. There was a write up in one of the local magazines where a bar was "approached" and asked to pay a fee for royalties. I don't think they will be able to do that all over the place though. LOTS of cover bands in this area.

Who knows how far this is going to go though?....

I understand that club owners can be sued by ASCAP if they don't pay an annual fee to ASCAP for having cover bands play at the club. I sort of agree with this practce to a point, however I think the annual fee is quite hefty (I forget the exact amount). ASCAP would probably get a lot more money if the bands were required to say the name of each song, artist, and album (CD) the song is from. People in the audience would more likely buy that CD if they knew the name of song and artist. I can't stand radio stations that play songs and never say the name of the song and artist. I think the radio stations should be fined by ASCAP for each song played that way. In effect when cover bands and club owners make money without paying any fees, then the artists being covered are being ripped off to a point. I wonder what percent of CD's in existence have been pirated? The entire country of China pirates almost every form of entertainment. I really don't blame ASCAP for wanting to collect some money for copywritten material. It's hard enough to make any money in this business without most of your work being ripped off by someone. Later..

ASCAP enforcement is nothing new. Sooner or later, any venue that appears to be making profit on their affiliated members copyright will be paid a visit by an ASCAP agent and read the "riot act". Pay up or go to court! The long and short of it is that if your name is Billy Joel, ASCAP is your friend. As far as the rest of us, ASCAP has put more then one of our venues out of the live music business.

The so called music mafia is totally within their legal rights, and don't give a tinker's damn about you or your little band.

Sad but true
HJ

PS. If you are a club that only books acts that play original material exclusively, you're off the hook!
HJ

S.P.,
I was an ASCAP member when I had a song receiving radio airplay. I'm not "anti ASCAP " per say, but in today's ever changing musical world, the reality is that any good musician-composer has more of a chance to get their music heard then ever before. We still need places to play live, however, and the little corner bar is a good place to start. The tactic of coming down on venue owners to pay for any perceived infringement of a composer's material is petty, and hurtful to the live music scene. As a composer, I certainly see the logic behind organisations such as ASCAP, but as a small-time working musician, my perception is that they do more damage then good. I,ve seen two good venues in my area shut down live music as a direct result of ASCAP actions.
HJ

It seems like we had a thread about this before...last winter I was playing at a bar/restaurant that was having some issues with BMI (I belong to BMI-I thought that was a little ironic). I have heard of venues being closed down by this. The manager of the bar was trying to promote original bands just for the purpose of not having to pay such fees.

In my case, it's win-win for me as an artist: I have a venue to play my original material, and if someone else comes in playing MY stuff (okay, play along with me), I still get paid (in theory).

Is this the origin of the term "COVER CHARGE"? I was actually thinking about that a few days ago...

I agree with all of you in one way or another, but for the most part I agree with HowlinJ, as a writer I sure want to get my share, but on the other hand I play in cover bands and cover bands help promote an artist music. I have tried to make it in the original scene amd came very close a couple of times. I watch these young artist and knowing what they are going to go thru to get their music heard and the odds of them making it. I am not trying to discorage anyone but I have always said your odds of winning the lottery are probably better, but in the mean time these young artist have to make a living somehow and thats where playing cover music comes in. I am not sure what the music scene is like around the rest of the country, but here in the Houston area if you play originals you pretty much play for free, if you play covers you can make a meager living.

Kansas City is a cover town. I always play some originals, sometimes more than 50% originals. I may not get as many gigs as some bands but I'm not playing to please the bar owners, I'm playing for my satisfaction first and foremost. I think the ASCAP or BMI fees should be lowered and bands doing covers must announce each song or distribute a song list to the audience. I don't remember what the fees are but they are high from what I remember. I know a few local dives that stopped having bands. There's too few places enough as it is to put some of these small clubs out of business. Playing by the rules is one thing, but not being able to afford to play by the rules is another. The music industry should do everything in its power to promote live music, be it cover or original. The ridiculously high fees and smoking bans are making it very difficult for the local dives to stay in business. We need more places to play. We need to get more people to come out to the clubs (let's lower the drinking age back to 18). I think it should be up to the venue owners whether smoking is allowed or not. Too few places to play and too many bands and its getting worse, not better.

Well, you'll be happy to know that WalMart has to pay fees, too (lesser, fees, to be sure, but still!). If you so much as play a RADIO in any business establishment, by the way the laws are written now, ASCAP or BMI can & frequently DO go into a store or restaurant & demand payment & FINES for non-payment in the past.

Costs range from a few hundred for radio or Muzac to over a thousand for live music & juke boxes, from what I've been told.

Most of the clubs we play at have the ASCAP emblem on their front door to cover the juke box, but I don't think I have seen one that has both ASCAP and BMI and there are a couple of other publishing co. out there. So if a club owner, bar owner, or dive owner did it the correct way and payed all 4 pub co. their exsorbodent fee's I can asure you it is going to be a bad thing for struggeling musicians and and the music biz as a whole, and like it or not 99.9 percent of us are struggeling musicians so as a collective I think the music biz is kinda shooting ourselves in the foot here. I would hope that if an owner pays one of the music mafia off that he or she are covered and don't have to pay the others. its kind of like where does this silly ness stop. (I think I,ll just shut up now and go write something LOL).

seems like a lose\lose situation for everyone involved, except the folks who are already rich.

Everyone needs a pound of flesh and rightly so for the author.

Other numeric values can only be contemplated by the people who people like us and if we are fortunate enough to make it........

Be known.

That's one good reason why folks should read more than write at some point.

12 bar/7 chords. Mish mash wallop, anything can make a chart success, and if you do? Why should you NOT expect something back for your efforts! After all and if you are lucky enough you have made people dance/think record/talk.

It's a mess yes.

But would you as a writer expect anything less?

I'd expect to be paid for my work and everyone who is copying my work and making money from it.

It is in fact why copyrights were made.

Loose up a bit, do your own numbers and convince locals that NEW is better. It's the only way out of it.

Just my 2 cents.