General Music Chat

I dont guess Ive started any threads lately, and its nice and cool on this pond bank with my lap top and I started thinking. What is selling out musically? Someone on another thread mentioned that I was selling out.

Musically I write stuff all the time and actually record a lot of it and file it back. I have no big plans for the stuff cause I didnt intend to market it or try to sell it and even impress anyone with it. My originals are basically bookmarkers in my life and mark how I felt at a given time in my life. Some of its posted here cause when I first came all I heard was you have to post audio to be taken seriously HA HA. So from where I sit in the cosmos I dont think that I have sold out musically, my personal moments are for me, you know the really selfish side of myself. Also I havent in the past few years wanted to put forth the effort to get a group of people to go my way so to speak.

So from a public musical side I play covers. Now in my mind the moment I say Im playing covers Ive sold out, it doesnt matter to me whether Im playing polka or country, southern rock or disco, metal or punk, at that point Ive sold myself out to the masses so to speak. To play in public venues I am willing to play whatever a crowd wants to hear in order to be in demand. So that being said the public side of me is a sell out. But I kind of extend that to original people out trying to sell their music to the public, at that point you have sold out to some extent.

I just thought it might be good thing to ponder on a hot day.

What is and isnt a sellout?

Selling out to me means compromising your musical integrity for profit. For example, Iggy Pop allowing Carnival Cruises to use "Lust for Life" in a commercial. On a smaller scale, selling out would mean playing covers you despise simply to appease the bar's owner or its patrons. On an original level, selling out would mean writing music that is not necessarily your style just to be popular. If you do anything that goes against your true beliefs you've sold out.

Well,

By definition, selling out, involves "selling" or getting a price for something, whether monetary or otherwise, in exchange for going against your beliefs. For me, selling out can be simplified to mean, getting a price or some value, for something you would not normally do, or in favor of something you really know you should be doing.


We were just talking about George Carlin in another thread. This is a perfect example. He was a "safe" comic, playing to mostly conservative audiences. He was very successful at this. He saw Lenny Bruce perform his act ONCE, and according to Carlin's comedy partner, he had an epiphany, and their act was done, in effect, from that moment on. Carlin realized that he was living a lie. He went solo, grew his hair and beard out, and put it in the trademark ponytail he wore ever since, and began doing very edgy routines. He was immediately rejected by the mainstream, read older conservative audience he formerly had, and was reduced to playing coffee houses and college campuses. But with the younger and more liberal generation, came a whole new fan base, and a whole new career.

The side lesson being, that sometimes, when you are true to your beliefs and what you believe you should be doing, in the end, it may still bring the success that only seemed possible from selling out.

Carlin now is an important footnote in legal history, causing the Supreme Court to have to rule on decency laws, directly inspired from his arrest due to the "7 dirty words" routine, and this being played on radio off of his album. He also has won grammies for his comedy albums, and many other awards, and is easily considered one of the greatest comedians of all time.

This is unlikely to have ever occurred had he continued serving up a "safe" routine to conservative audiences while burying the strong feeling that this is NOT what he is meant to do, and what he believes he should be doing.

Had Carlin had his "epiphany", and yet continued the rest of his life with his "safe" routine, all the while denying what was driving him inside, then he would have been a "sell-out", trading some value (money and success) in place of following his heart.

In the end, Carlin did NOT sell-out and wound up a much more important figure than he ever would have, as a member of a comedy hack duo working vegas lounges.

As to musicians...

I don't think working in a cover band is selling out. Many of us are happy to learn covers cause we just like them, and maybe enjoy playing them for friends at parties who sing along.

I would love for my original music to become appreciated and successful but like you, I began writing music for ME. It was my form of expression, my therapy, and even my communication with the Divine many times. I won't be a failure if commercial success never results from them, because they still do for me, what they have always done for me.

....Ya wanna talk about selling out?? I used to write orchestral pieces back in the day..... I also was in a strictly original band and composed everything.... Once in a while, back in the day, I'd do a side thing with a metal band and was constantly getting laid and acquired a lot of fans and free drugs.... I moved on over to the dark side and wasted my years of musical education for a decade of bliss..... I now work a crappy 9-5 job and just gig for the fun of it.... I practice my ass off every day and wail the crap outta my guitars on the weekends but will never attian the musical dream I actually set out for!

Quit a band that was heavy into extremely liberal politics, & this was reflected in thier songs. Couldn't do it. To do so, for me, would be selling out.

Haven't had a decent thing going since, but I still got my pride, right?

Still don't know if it was the right thing to do. Would have felt like a crumb if I'd done it. Feel like a crumb for not having anything now.

Kinda crummy, but I'll get by.

Eh...it's done & over. Looking for something new that isn't all tied up in politics or religion...just wanna play music.

....Ya wanna talk about selling out?? I used to write orchestral pieces back in the day..... I also was in a strictly original band and composed everything.... Once in a while, back in the day, I'd do a side thing with a metal band and was constantly getting laid and acquired a lot of fans and free drugs.... I moved on over to the dark side and wasted my years of musical education for a decade of bliss..... I now work a crappy 9-5 job and just gig for the fun of it.... I practice my ass off every day and wail the crap outta my guitars on the weekends but will never attian the musical dream I actually set out for!

You definitely wail the crap out of the guitar.
I'm guessing your decade of bliss was the 80's... don't ever regret that experience. I caught the very tail end of it, but I've heard many a story -- And they arent all sinful stories...
it was just a great time for people to get together and have fun at concerts or rock bars.
You're never too old to be a Jazz guy.

Anyways, I think 'selling out' is just doing anything that goes against your principles or moral fiber for money.
Sometimes survival trumps principles though.

JimmyDanger spelled it out for me in his first 11 words.

The band "Underoath" = Sellouts.

They weren't making enough money with their current albums, so they kicked out their lead vocalist, hired a new one, and then changed their genre dramatically. Don't get me wrong though, I still love their music...

Also they claim to be Christian, but in some of their videos on Myspace, the drummer says, "Holy s***!", about 5 times. I mean, I don't care if you curse, just don't post it on Myspace for all your fans to see. You have an image to uphold.

There, that's my little anti-Underoath rant.

I don't think anybody has the right or knows for sure if another person is "selling" out. No matter what you're doing if YOU feel that YOU are "selling" out, then YOU are "selling" out. If you're playing nothing but covers and you truly enjoy what you're doing, then YOU are NOT selling out. If you're doing something musically, and it doesn't matter what that is, and you have to change it in order to make money, AND you feel like you're selling out, then you're selling out. I've heard many people describe other people as "selling" out. This is a totally SUBJECTIVE opinion. Nobody has ever accused me of selling out. I perform covers and originals, only those that I enjoy to play. I may not play that often but so what. I've been offered full time music jobs and turned them down because I didn't like what I was going to play. If I ever needed money so bad I had to accept those jobs then I would consider myself to be "selling" out. But until that time comes I refuse to judge anybody else as "selling" out. I don't like the term anyway. It immediately puts a negative impression on somebody. Later...

Echoes Fisherman Bob.

That is all
B)

selling out is: making albums just 2 make a profit, cuz you can make alot of money by doing music and side projects like writing books, independent movies, and such. but, when you start gettin into the capitalist scene of clothing lines, commercials, and crap then you're a sell out. when it's not about the fans anymore, then you're a sell out, point blank period

selling out is: making albums just 2 make a profit, cuz you can make alot of money by doing music and side projects like writing books, independent movies, and such. but, when you start gettin into the capitalist scene of clothing lines, commercials, and crap then you're a sell out. when it's not about the fans anymore, then you're a sell out, point blank period

What is wrong with making money in music? It doesn't matter what music you are involved in. I am not big on Country music but if Billy Ray needed a flutist, I'm his man! If The Who or the Kronos Quartet asked me to write something for them, you better believe that I will work my butt off to make it so. If my music was needed for a commercial that would be great! As musicians we have to stay marketable regardless what that market is.

Selling out, in my opinion, is being a musician at heart but pursuing a career in law or medicine or trash hauling, because of the money, while putting your musical dreams on ice..

Yea, I hope I land that Kotex contract.

Yea, I hope I land that Kotex contract.

Hmmm, what song would go with that? Stairway to Heaven,Don't Stand So CLose To Me, Only Women Bleed, Sweet Dreams

(Raining Blood might also be a good one. )


Some of it's a matter of timing. Change your style to fit the future and you're a pioneer. Change it to fit the present and you might be called a sell-out.

Of course, for most it's just a matter of time.