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While the conservatives were engaging in an eye-rolling, toe curling circle jerk over the recent controversial comments of Rev. Wright, the oft called "liberal media" was oddly missing a parallel event going on in the McCain camp. Alan Combs didn't catch it, as he was fetching coffee for Sean Hannity (part of his inhouse duties as "liberal" Faux News House you-know-what). The mainstream networks weren't giving it much attention. But thanks to those bastions of evil <b>DailyKos</b> and <b>The Huffington Letter</b>, the curtain has been pulled from the Great Oz, and a mighty stench did erupt.

While Rev. Wright might be a household name by now, not everyone is aware of stout, thin-lipped evangelical leader named John Hagee. While his flock may know him as a man of "God", and others may know him through his annoying ads for his 14 dollar book on Israel, he got the attention of others like John McCain - especially when Hagee decided to endorse him.

So who is John Hagee, and why does this endorsement of McCain matter?

Hagee not only believes, and preaches, that the Catholic Church is a cult, but other anticannonical teachings to mainstream Christianity that deny Christ's messianic mission, and nature on earth. He has barked inflammatory admonitions to the usual targets of extreme evangalical Christianity like Gays, Lesbians, Liberals and Secular Humanists. He was looking forward to a war between the US and Iran in 2006, that he believed then would lead to Christ's return, through clouds of toxic radiation from a nuclear war.

Having a keen eye for public relations, Hagee will often deny any animosity he has for the Catholic faith in statements like this:

"To call me "anti-Catholic" makes about as much sense as calling me "anti-Protestant." I am, most assuredly, neither."

But that damned YouTube! It revealed, through Hagee's own words and visage, a very different view (Check out the "Queen of Heaven" in a slinky red cocktail dress - nice touch!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q

While Barak Obama was busy unequivocally rejecting the endorsement of people like Louis Farrakhan and Rev. Wright (who fired Wright from a position on his campaign), John McCain was having a veritable blood-sweating in his Garden of Gesthemane over whether to cling to the endorsement of a man who has the following views:

<b>Hagee on Hurricane Katrina</b> "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

<b>Hagee on Islamic Beliefs</b>
Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

<b>Hagee on African-Americans</b>
The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported:

"Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.'

"The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]

<b>Hagee on Catholicism</b>
"Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]

<b>Hagee on Women</b>
"Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]

"[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political Issues," John Hagee]

<b>Hagee on LGBT Americans</b>
"The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]

<b>Hagee on Iran</b>
"The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation, 8/8/2006]

And all this without breaking a sweat.

While Faux News daily pounds the same 15 second clip of Rev. Wrights comments (deliciously out of context, a Faux News forte), the appalling litany of lunacy advocated by John Hagee has been slipping by the vast majority of medai watchers almost unnoticed. The crass patriotic forces who police the streetcorners to see who is and who isn't wearing a little flag pin, are already on their umpteenth blog reports about this great threat to the republic.

Obama quickly and decisively renounced the most controversial of Rev. Wrights views. John McCain stands before John Hagee like a deer in the headlights - not knowing whether to run in the other direction, or give Hagee one of those George Bush sized hugs he's known for.

The McCain team is poised, ready to cheer for Johnny to make a decision either way, but wondering if this is how the guy would face a true crisis.

John Hagee's book is only 14 bucks, folks. Get 'em before McCain decides exactly what to say to this murderous lunatic.

Couldn't resist....

These are truly two sub-morons who should both be given about as much attention as three milliliters of squirrel diarrhea. Later...

You're kidding me aren't you?

First of all...

The slavery thing is clearly a joke. I am assuming that kids are auctioned off as "slaves" for the day, for household chores, yardwork, etc.. as a fundraising initiative. Slavery ended 150 years ago. why would I have a problem with that humor?

PMS - I think I agree with him on this one for sure. I've tried negotiating with my wife during hers, and trust me, terrorists are easier.

So, let's dismiss the stupid sh*t Irminsul really.

Humor is humor. None of that was offensive.

How about the bigger issues...


Catholicism:

It is a long held belief by many protestant faiths that Catholocism is the forerunner for the anytichrist spoken of in Revelations. They see the Catholic Church as the "Whore" mentioned in Rev. 17.

I've been to protestant churches and heard it preached.

Irminsul, you probably aren't aware of this, but this is actually taught in some seminaries. You'll have to learn this information to graduate from those seminaries.


You're getting into slippery area here. Protestantism is, after all, named after "Protesting" the "Catholic Church".

It's a whole branch of Christianity founded on protesting Catholicism.

Are they supposed to stop protesting now? Are they supposed to pretend like they don't believe the Catholic Church is corrupt?

Hell, it's been behind some disgraceful episodes. The Spanish Inquisition for one. They tortured and killed people who were "heretics". The Catholic Church is so wealthy and influential, I mean, are you aware that Vatican City is literally a soverign city-state? It is for all practical purposes, basically a soverign nation, with a population of less than 1000 people. The Vatican has "embassies" all over the world. Literal embassies. There is an American Ambassador to the Vatican. There is NO other religion in the world, in which ANYTHING like this even comes close. Clearly, ALOT of corruption is possible under that much power. One need only look at how they deal with their numerous pedophile priests to know that.

He doesn't have to respect Catholicism when his own religious tenets oppose their teachings, and his interpretation of theology, finds that body, as the setting for the coming of a world antichrist.

Get real.


So, religious differences exist. They're going to preach on it.

Scientology is a religion. But clearly, when you know it's history, it is a religion wholly made up by science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard. He actually made a statement saying something like "Writing science fiction pays only pennies per page, the real money is in religion. If you want to get real money, start your own religion!"

He made a speech like that, at some writer's conference. It is well documented. Not many years later, he did just that. Made up his own religion. Not unexpectedly, a very "science-fiction" oriented religion, since he was, after all, a science fiction writer. His "theology" involves warlords and aliens from other worlds, coming here due to an overpopulation problem in the galaxy, etc.. etc... Don't even ask me about Xenu or clams! LOL


Scientology theology is best expressed in the now infamous South Park spoof of Scientology, where yes, they use the church's real beliefs.

Scientology pulled some weight and got Comedy Central to pull this episode, but it is funny as hell, and literally teaches you ALOT about Scientology theology.

Worth the watch:

http://www.scientomogy.com/southpark_scientology.php


when Comedy Central pulled the plug on this episode, the creators of South Park, actually gave this press release:

"So, Scientology, you may have won THIS battle, but the million-year war for earth has just begun! Temporarily anozinizing our episode will NOT stop us from keeping Thetans forever trapped in your pitiful man-bodies. Signed: "Trey Parker and Matt Stone, servants of the dark lord Xenu."

Oops,

Meant to say...

Hague is pathetic. So is Pat Robertson. Robertson is worse. He actually publicly called for the assasination of Hugo Chavez.


You may have a point though, I think he should distance himself from these over-the-top televangelists.

But I'm not nearly as afraid of that relationship, because it is NOT a relationship. Yes, he accepted an endorsement, but McCain has NEVER been a friend to the religious right. He has ALWAYS wanted to free the Republican party from that influence.

So, I don't know, we'll have to see. He needs the religious side of the party to back him, and while I don't agree with some of the nonsense some of these televangelists say, they are respected by some, as true religious leaders. But they don't seem happy that innocent Americans died in 9-11. That's what really bothers me about Wright. I wouldn't mind the "chickens are coming home to roost" comment, if it was said more seriously, in the context of something sad, that it is sad, that God has judged America. But he is clearly THRILLED about the deaths of thousands of Americans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... he's thrilled that God has judged, but not necessarily about the deaths involved in that judgement?

BS - You cannot separate the two.

Wright is a sick disturbed individual who takes JOY in something like 9-11. Not a "Forgive us for our sins God".

How do you DANCE AROUND and SMILE at the deaths of that many innocent people?

It's disgusting.

A surgical strike on Iran's nuclear facilities is a great idea though.

Just saying.

Craig Maxim wrote:Oops,

Meant to say...

Hague is pathetic. So is Pat Robertson. Robertson is worse. He actually publicly called for the assasination of Hugo Chavez.


You may have a point though, I think he should distance himself from these over-the-top televangelists.

But I'm not nearly as afraid of that relationship, because it is NOT a relationship. Yes, he accepted an endorsement, but McCain has NEVER been a friend to the religious right. He has ALWAYS wanted to free the Republican party from that influence.

So, I don't know, we'll have to see. He needs the religious side of the party to back him, and while I don't agree with some of the nonsense some of these televangelists say, they are respected by some, as true religious leaders. But they don't seem happy that innocent Americans died in 9-11. That's what really bothers me about Wright. I wouldn't mind the "chickens are coming home to roost" comment, if it was said more seriously, in the context of something sad, that it is sad, that God has judged America. But he is clearly THRILLED about the deaths of thousands of Americans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... he's thrilled that God has judged, but not necessarily about the deaths involved in that judgement?

BS - You cannot separate the two.

Wright is a sick disturbed individual who takes JOY in something like 9-11. Not a "Forgive us for our sins God".

How do you DANCE AROUND and SMILE at the deaths of that many innocent people?

It's disgusting.

Wow Craig, you do the ratoinalization dance better than Ginger Rogers OR Fred Astaire.

Obama clearly and stridently rejects Wrights comments, while McCain still mealy mouthed keeps Hagee hanging around - and all you can do is obsess about Obama.

In your mind, Wright is "thrilled" with the deaths of thousands on 9/11.

Wright's accurate summation of what led to 9/11 is "hate", but Hagee gets a pass on his because that bullshit is "taught in Protestant Churches".

Wowee zowee. Bush could have used your nuancing during the mountains of lies he and his told about Iraq.

Nice going.

BTW, calling for a military strike on Iran's legitimate nuclear facilities is tatamount to calling for more 9/11s on American soil. How unAmerican.

Irminsul wrote:

Wow Craig, you do the ratoinalization dance better than Ginger Rogers OR Fred Astaire.

Obama clearly and stridently rejects Wrights comments, while McCain still mealy mouthed keeps Hagee hanging around - and all you can do is obsess about Obama.

The problem is religious. Religious issues are religious issues. Differences of theology CANNOT be resolved when they are in opposition. There is no dancing involved. Hagee believes Catholicism is an evil system. Is he supposed to deny his beliefs? Catholics will be offended by Hagees beliefs, and it is always possible McCain could pay the price for that. On the other hand, Catholics believe there is NO salvation outside the Catholic church, and protestants will find THAT offensive. They have been holding these positons for CENTURIES. They are in opposition. McCain can't please everyone. I don't think the Catholics are worried about it, and I don't think the Protestants are either. McCain is not a particularly religious person. No one fears that he seeks to establish laws based on religious convinctions. As such, I don't think Catholics nor Protestants worry about him collecting endorsements from both. People who hold strong religious convictions want someone who reflects their values, not someone who belongs to the same denomination as themselves. McCain is on a slippery slope, slightly, where this is concerned, because he is not really religious enough for the religious right, but the alternative, Hillary or Obama, makes him look rosey in comparison. This was the initial problem for McCain at first, because economic conservatives embrace him easily, but social conservatives have issues with him, because he is fairly moderate in their view. Extremists also don't like that he reaches across the aisle to Democrats, in order to get things done. I personally see that as a virtue, not a vice.

Irminsul wrote:
In your mind, Wright is "thrilled" with the deaths of thousands on 9/11.

Look at his demeaner on the video, and tell me he is sad, or melancholy in ANY way.

Irminsul wrote:Wright's accurate summation of what led to 9/11 is "hate",

First off, there is no question in ANYONE'S mind that hate was the motivation. The question is whether the hate is exclusively cause by American foreign policy. This is not comprehensive enough.

Secondly, if I had a child that dies of a drug overdose, and I had warned him over and over of the dangers. If he was to die then, of that overdose, despite my warnings, I certainly would not appear joyful over it, and would not be preaching a sermon, before his body was even cold, saying "Your chickens have come home to roost boy, I told you so!" with my family members hooping and hollering in approval over it. There would be no love or true concern in that, only an evil satisfaction that vengeance had been fulfilled. That was Wright's heart during that sermon. He was OBLIVIOUS to the thousands of deaths, that realized the price of that revenge. He was just oblivious to it. He doesn't love this country. He loves himself, and the attention he receives, even for mocking the deaths of thousands of innocents.

Irminsul wrote:but Hagee gets a pass on his because that bullshit is "taught in Protestant Churches".

"Taught at churches?" You mean the religious opposition he holds to Catholicism? Yes, he does. Maybe you missed where the name "Protestant" comes from? The whole movement is founded on opposition to traditional Catholicism. If you want to change their beliefs and maybe change their name to "Tolerants" or "Agreeablements" you can always approach the Council of Churches with your suggestions.

Irminsul wrote:
BTW, calling for a military strike on Iran's legitimate nuclear facilities is tatamount to calling for more 9/11s on American soil. How unAmerican.

No, it's not un-American.

And neither is it un-American to pacify rogue nations that sponsor terrorism. That is just stupidity.

If American Presidents had believed as you do, and to the degree you do, there would be no "America" by this time.

It might be called "New Germany", "New Japan" or maybe even "New Iraq" ....but not "America"

Thank God they weren't so naive.

Ask the English how Chamberlain's "diplomacy" worked out for them.

couldn't we just save us all the trouble of worrying about this and get all the candidates together in dc the same time we have a mid east summit over here and just drop one nuke or something else that would do the job? plz......wouldn't cause THAT much trouble? would it?

No, because they aren't all of the problem. As you can see, Obama is totally right when he says we should not only end this war, but the "mindset that led to it". And that mindset is more with the citizenry than with the convenient scapegoat called "all politicians".

oh please Obama is gonna say whatever he thinks will get lib fools to vote for him . He is just another self serving lier like the rest of our current candidates for head theif in charge of bullshit. He could no more just pull our troops out of Iraq that pull his own head out of his butt. He knows it, and he dont care it does not serve him. The mind set that led to this war is the same one that has led to all wars it's called humanity. And you arnt going to change it no matter how much you cry about it. Or obama talks about it. You cant even go to a sporting event without people starting a fight or riot over a silly game. Man is violent we have always been and always will be. There always will be people trying to take advantage of someone they see as weaker. Its just the way life is. It dont matter if its Jews and Arabs or a teenage girl rushing to beat an old lady to a front row parking spot. Same mentality. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Want peace? Be prepared for war.

sanshouheil wrote:oh please Obama is gonna say whatever he thinks will get lib fools to vote for him . He is just another self serving lier like the rest of our current candidates for head theif in charge of bullshit. He could no more just pull our troops out of Iraq that pull his own head out of his butt. He knows it, and he dont care it does not serve him. The mind set that led to this war is the same one that has led to all wars it's called humanity. And you arnt going to change it no matter how much you cry about it. Or obama talks about it. You cant even go to a sporting event without people starting a fight or riot over a silly game. Man is violent we have always been and always will be. There always will be people trying to take advantage of someone they see as weaker. Its just the way life is. It dont matter if its Jews and Arabs or a teenage girl rushing to beat an old lady to a front row parking spot. Same mentality. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Want peace? Be prepared for war.

Well THIS "lib fool" finds much in Obama's views that are more in sync with the best America has to offer than anything that's fallen out of that geriatric buttbag McCain.

There is a difference between being "prepared for war" and starting a bunch of stupid wars that needn't have happened.

"Buttbag McCain"-LMAO "President Buttbag McCain"- LMAO even harder. Sad thing is we could end up with President Buttbag McCain. He is absolutely the least inspiring speaker I have ever heard in my life. I don't have any idea what the hell the guy stands for. How the hell did he win all these primaries? Maybe a bunch of democrats voted for him thinking he couldn't win the presidency in the general election. Sad thing for the democrats is that they're ripping each other apart and there will most likely be a brokered convention. Worst thing that could happen is that Obama willl likely have the most delegates and not be nominated at the convention. Then you'll surely see Buttbag McCain as our next President. I think I'm going to vote for Ralph Nader. What a pathetic process we have for choosing a President. It's dragging on FOREVER. Candidates for President should only be allowed to run for one year, have all the primaries within two months and then have the conventions exactly two months before the election day. At this point I'm sick of all the endless political analysis and hearing the same exact lame speeches month after month after month. It's sad...

I am captain butterfingers!
I am the Kernel King!!!!

Bob, I'm also for getting rid of the Electoral College (I could do a whole thread on that one, but will refrain). It's time to have the people vote in the Chief Executive instead of relying on some antiquated math game based on state population.