Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I used to direct many bands in my past and always had a lot of gigs and happy players,I play in a band which the band leader is a friend , but i see that it seems a lot more than learn this and do that, must be able to communicate with people., I wont stay long when someone always remind you and other people that he is in charge, and he knows tunnings and tells people dont argue with them because he knows it all, the cover band i play in has has potential but its beeing torn apart, he keeps telling me lets do originals, thats my specialty, im a songwriter and when i get original band together, i equal all members to equal 100%, I am going to find my band and i will, its funny, I told him, well , usually whoever has the space and pa system pretty much has a stronger say so or tyies to run a band, I stopped getting bands and pa, but i think i am more at peace being more involved with a band,some guys trying to do everything for their bands eventually burn out, ,every cover band that i just got in the leaders or volunteer commander, always argured that they knew the songs and i would see them mess up, yelled at and accused of messing things up, 3 bands, and i told them off, and continued to play elsewhere, if you feel you can put a band together, go for it make it the best one can.

A band is a team...

Look at it like, you're all aliens from another planet her all together on the same mission... That's how it was described to me once and it made sense lol...

There doesn't need to be a "Leader" in a band. Now a manager is another story.

But when one band member thinks they are the boss over everyone else it's gonna cause issues in the long run.

NO offense, dude-I Think you have an interesting topic there, and would love to comment more on it-but I can't make heads or tails out of much that you said! I agree that the band leader can make or break the band, and personally, I don't believe in band democracy. I've had too many experiences that involved singular motives and personal agendas. Sometimes, there just has to be someone appointed to keep the band on track. That person definitely has to have people skills, but also has to appear authoritative enough to make tough decisions without causing descention within the band.

It's a slippery slope, that's for sure. I think a band does need a 'leader', not so much a hands-down "do as I say" guy, we all know how that turns out *cough*axl*rose*cough*...

To me the leader is the 'visionary' who, upon general agreeance, has the vision, people skills, arrangement skills, and netoworking skills capable of doing more than just playing. Sometimes bands end up with more than one, which can be explosive, but also great.

yea, you guys got the point across, the last response hit it right on the nail. if everyone has the same vision, it will work great, thanks.

I was in a band where it was "accepted" that one of our guys was the leader. But he was not pro-active in certain areas. He also wanted us to recognize his leadership role by his overall demeanor. He is a real nice guy, would give you the shirt off his back. But in a band situation, and with me involved, he would use passive-agressive tactics to assert his role. I doubt that he was really aware of his methods to maintain control. But we weren't that big of a deal of a band for me to step in and say something about it. I value his friendship more as a bandmate. Love him like a brother. And in this situation, avoiding conflict was the more logical decision. I Had an opportunity to help form a more serious band in my local area, playing the covers I wasn't able to play with the other band. So I took it.

In my band I'm in now, the singer has the most experience, rehearsal space, equipment, and knowledge. I go with what he says, but I'm not afraid to give my two cents. but I look at it this way: I joined HIM in HIS band that HE is organizing in HIS house. But we have such a common interest in the covers we want to do, he gives me all the freedom I want to bring in songs to learn. IT's AWESOME!

Hey Gang,

In my band I'm in now, the singer has the most experience, rehearsal space, equipment, and knowledge

Man , that a first. ..Usually its the other way around...Man, I know what ya mean about the passive aggressive deal...I think we're ALL capable of wanting to lead at different times especially in a multi-genre band with some age difference... Im tryin to convince my boys that who ever is lead singing has has control over the arr. Yeah , the "all being equal deal" only works if everyone has the same exp.level and musicial knowledge...Mutual respect for eachothers area of expertise usually keeps things runnin somewhat smooth...Yeah , you guys rememeber a post a few months back about leaders and lead singers?
Now that was telling....


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Just left a band with one of those "I'm the boss it's my band cuz it's named after me" guys...didn't like it this time, either...esp when the $ wasn't that great there towards the end...LOL...I'll work just so long as a hired gun, but c'mon, man! The money had best be there at the end of the night, ya know?

Some ppl need more attention than I'm willing to give them...add that to a general lack of overall taste &/or too much pushiness & I'm DEFINITELY outta here!

Sometimes a leader hasta know when to back off & let someone else drive for a bit...& that is a rare thing to find in this or any other venue.

Everyone has a specialty...in a band situation it's very important to use all of your talents for the good of the band...some ppl are better at booking, or collecting at the end of the night, or writing, or arranging...any member can have an off night or a great one, & that needs to be recognized & proper adjustments need to be made for the common good.

A great leader is one who recognizes that, & can also handle the occasional situation where someone is slacking or lacking with just the right amount of pressure to accomplish the common goals.

Since we are on this subject, I sure could use some help. As some of you may know, I have been recording a lot of material and trying rather desperately to put together a full band in order to perform those songs. I have a one going right now (and I'm sure that everyone involved is clear about the purpose/goal). The problem is, well, you name it. A couple of the guys just don't seem to be giving it much effort. The one guy that is trying really isn't up to par (experience-wise). In order to get out and play live, I've gone back to adding covers to our sets, which is a real piss off, considering that I have enough material myself for about five sets. The other guys all have input, and we are playing several of their originals as well. I just feel like the wheels are spinning. We just came off of two weeks without practice, basically because two of them decided to take unexpected vacations. I feel like I'm bending over backwards to keep everyone happy, and am still not getting results.
So my question is: As the "Band Leader", what am I doing wrong, and how do I reach that goal-without being a jerk and making everyone quit?

for you to play originals live, not same as a cover band, find your original band that you will feel glad with and not a sinking feeling in your stomach,why dont you take a unexpected vacation and sort your priorities out and look for others to jam with...

Jo, not knowing all the details, all I can say is to talk to each member individually. Ask them how they're feeling about the band, the material, etc. It may be that you're pushing songs that they feel uncomfortable with, or feel inadequate to do them justice, or whatever.

Taking the time to reestablish your conections, individually, and reestablish your common goals, might help.

Ask them what you are doing wrong or right. Let them know that thier input is important to you, that it isn't just about your songs, your ideas, your goals.

Sometimes it's necessary for ppl to take one of those short vacations to avoid burnout...see if that's the problem.

Is the guy with so little experience dragging down the group? Is it possible to "dummy down" the arrangements so that he can be included, or does he need replacing? Are personal problems interfering with the band? Are there personality conflicts arising that you are unaware of? Are you too pushy or too accomodating? Are the songs you're writing so difficult that they aren't worth the end result, after so much work to learn them?

These are questions that can only be answered if you ask them. Tread lightly, & try not to take things too personally if the problem is indeed you. Just make the necessary adjustments...sounds easy, right?

Hope I don't sound too glib. I know it's a fine edge to tread.

Good luck with it all. Hope it works out for you.

joseph6 wrote: A couple of the guys just don't seem to be giving it much effort.

To me that is the biggest problem you face. I've been in bands where this was an issue, and human instinct is always to try to band-aid the situation and make things work. Never have I seen it work out in the end. I have seen it end with the "slacker(s)" getting kicked out (best case) and I've experienced the "slacker(s) erode the entire band into disbandment (worst case). This worst case scenario happened to me once, and in hindsight, won't happen again. Don't let it destroy your band.

joseph6 wrote:The one guy that is trying really isn't up to par (experience-wise).

I'm not sure if you mean gig experience, or ability to perform at an acceptable level? Does he just need lessons? I give bonus points to people who are devoted and TRY. Usually issues like needing lessons and stuff are well accepted and resolve these issues.

joseph6 wrote:In order to get out and play live, I've gone back to adding covers to our sets, which is a real piss off, considering that I have enough material myself for about five sets.

Yeah, outside of the people who want only to do covers, most of us want to do all originals, but covers tend to be a necessary evil for most clubs, as I'm sure you know. If you can book dates doing originals, then go for it. Don't do covers if you don't have to! If one of the guys can't handle that, then I think he might be in the wrong band.

joseph6 wrote: So my question is: As the "Band Leader", what am I doing wrong, and how do I reach that goal-without being a jerk and making everyone quit?

I fear there is no way to reach any goals from your position without having to pull a dick move. Sounds like you have conflicting interests within the band. Everyone is not on the same page. Trying to make it work will probably be more of a short-term solution, with the eventual buildup and explosion down the road. I think we all would prefer to walk onto a stage with a solid act, rather than a shaky one. Don't rush to the stage... Work things out first. Sounds like you NEED to cut someone loose. But also what Philby said- Talk to them individually, find out where they stand, what page they are on. Make wise decisions. Good luck!

Thanks for the input, guys. There are a lot of good points here, and hopefully I can use them to come up with a positive solution. Just to clarify a little:

THe keyboardist: A relative with little musical experience in general, strong desire to get somewhere, but I've basically run out of ways to show him the songs aside from putting his fingers in the right places-EVERY TIME! He just doesn't seem to catch on, and when he's playing the wrong notes, he doesn't notice. I'm sure the audience definitely will notice.

The drummer: Has put a decent effort into the band, though he has yet to accurately learn any of my songs, and for the third week in a row, we won't be practicing due to his other plans.

Finally, the bass player: A veteran of 25+ years on his instrument, yet I'm nearly having to do the same finger-placement deal with him as with the keyboardist. Worse yet, he's the Joker of the band, and I've watched helplessly while he wastes away valuable practice time with stupid jokes and endless non-musical conversations.

I just don't get it. If they are really going to be this apathetic towards the band, why not just be honest about it? I feel I've my intentions clear to them. I guess it just pisses me off so much because replacing them is nearly impossible. I think nearly everyone on Bandmix is or was trying to find new musicians, so you all know what a pain that can be...Okay, okay, I'll stop whining...Thanks for listening.

I've never seen bands work as a democratic endeavor. The most successful things I've been in have had a strong leader or two.

Since my ntaure is to yearn for democracy, that is troublesome. But it is the truth.

Well said Irminsul, (and many good points from all)

Good leadership is something that seems to be sadly lacking in this age of self promotion.

To preside means to conduct a gathering, or meeting, of a group of individuals with similar goals , in an organized manner. I'm not suggesting our bands should nessacerilly apply "Rules of Order" to git it "out playing",but if things ain't happening, well then, somebody better "take the helm". Hopefully it won't be a narcissistic tyrant.

My new trio seems to have good balance in this respect. Trios require a bit more from the individual players, but I'm starting to believe it's worth it , if only to keep life "simple". I'd still consider a sax player, or a guitarist of the ilk of most of you "Forum-mixers" (maybe even a piper, or Celtic harpist, if they wouldn't mind playin' out in Pocono beer-joints for little more then gas money.)
John