General Music Chat

Lastly when you start reaching the more pro levels there is no hand holding, kindness or patience. You either do the job or you don't and if you don't do the job it's on to the next guy because there are 100 of them waiting to replace you.

Possible that's the case in cover-land....

When a band is trying to write original music it does take patience....

Lastly when you start reaching the more pro levels there is no hand holding, kindness or patience. You either do the job or you don't and if you don't do the job it's on to the next guy because there are 100 of them waiting to replace you.

Possible that's the case in cover-land....

When a band is trying to write original music it does take patience....

I am not talking your own band situation.

I am talking studio work or pro level auditions.

I am not talking your own band situation.

I am talking studio work or pro level auditions.

Oh

Here I is!!

Well...actually it my wife's site but she's taking over bookings! Talk about a cover/garage band! LOL

Wegman, you said,
"I find this attitude is more with musicians who are not confident or are not accomplished. I like throwing an idea out and it getting mauled because if I am playing with accomplished players it will be a hundred times better then I ever could have done on my own.
Also regardless of skill level not everyone gels with everyone. So, no matter how much you caudle or re assure a player it isn't ever going to work. IMO the accomplished people know right away what works or not, with whom and why or why not.
Lastly when you start reaching the more pro levels there is no hand holding, kindness or patience. You either do the job or you don't and if you don't do the job it's on to the next guy because there are 100 of them waiting to replace you . . . "
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It got me to thinking . . . :
There's an opposite end of the "criticism-spectrum," which I've not heard much of here . . .
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I guess it has to do with the "Rock - God" attitude . . .
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People, if you're a pretty good musician, be REAL careful about the people you surround yourself with.
If all the musicians around you think youre really, really good, well . . . you have to take that with a grain of salt.
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If they have been playing for over, say 15 - 20 years, and they all agree your're really realy good, well ok . . . maybe you are (just be nice).
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But, if none of them is really good (that's only one 'really,' not two), then you might be accepting praise from a combination "musician/fan."
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I kind-of try to avoid "musician/fans," because in their eyes: you can do no wrong.
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Sometimes I'll play a few new chordal-sets which I know are 'weird,'; looking for feedback on how to improve it.
But if everybody tells you EVERYTHING you do is wonderful . . .
. . . aww, man! That's no help . . .
And if one hears something repeated enough times, one start to believe it.
What if I start to believe it?
That's no good . . .
I'm not tooting my horn; what I'm saying is be careful of what kinds of musicians you surround yourself with.
Hey, remember, there's a lot of people who think Britany Spears is good . . . and the Spice Girls . . . .
. . . and, also, Led Zep, and Chet Atkins, and Rush, and Bethoven, and Santana . . . they're all a different league, entirely . . .
There is a lot of different levels of expertise out there . . . .
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I think it's real important to surround yourself with people as close to your own level of experience (or better) as possible.
If you surround yourself with musicians who you think are inferior, you can be "Top Dog," eh?
But if you are the "Top Dog," you might be actually lowering you own standards, without even knowing it.
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If I try out a new guitar piece on someone, I might hear, "Wow, that's really great. I really like that!"
My reaction? "Yeah, ok, thanks . . . (whatever . . . )"
That's ok if they're a fan, or a lot less expereinced . . . compliments are nice . . .
BUT . . .
It's a whole lot better for me to try out a new piece on someone and hear something like, "Hey, I like that. Sounds cool. Hey, how about if before you go into the A7th, if you quickly play an A9th flat?"
My reaction to this would be something like, "Hmmm - oh, yeah! . . . lilt up to it; . . . and then I could lilt up to the E9th with a E7th flat, and I could . . . gee, while I'm at it, if I'm putting filigrees on this song, any time I play an E9th I could add the 13th afterwards. And then I could . . . ."
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It can be that, or, "Gee, thanks . . . (whatever . . .)"
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You see what I'm saying.
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I'm not directing this at anyone in particular . . . it's just a thought I've had from time to time, and the subject happened to come up.
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When I'm trying new stuff, I'd much prefer a '"sounding-board."
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I guess I'm just suggesting to people to not surround oneself with fans, or you can stagnate without knowing it.
I've seen this with interviews with rock stars, who think they're wonderful. I hate their conceit; and they surround themselves with people who bolster it.
When someone rests on their laurels (accomplishments & praise), eventually their contempories will become their superiors.
. . . and the fans will start drifting away anyway . . .
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You have to consider the source, I guess that's all I'm saying.
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This is a great forum, people.
If I try to talk about this kind of stuff anywhere else, I get a bunch of blank stares . . . people don't even know what I'm talking about . . .
It's nice to be able to talk about this kind stuff to people who actually know what you're talking about . . .

I never thought about it, but you are right on what you say RhythmMan. I guess if people just think everything you do is great it is like you can do no wrong, when that is absolutely incorrect. When I look at you guys, I think, "Wow, they must be something, compared to me especially." I suppose though by doing that I am as guilty as others who start idolizing, thinking someone can do no wrong. I prefer though to be very truthful, so if I do not like something, I say it. I do not like to make suggestions to others because I must admit, due to my lack of time playing, I tend to feel inferior compared to them. But I suppose that is a bad idea, huh?

I try to adapt to my own style of playing and listen to other peoples suggestions. I like asking you guys questions because I know you guys know a ton about these subjects. It is very good for my learning of this instrument.

I concur with another thing you said; that only here you can say whatever and we understand. There are some crappy websites out there and some musicians who just, like you said, give the "blank stare."

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

Good advice RhythMman.

I take the approach that all my stuff sucks, I know nothing, I can do alot better and to keep working harder and getting better. Until I am the best of the best in my mind I suck and will not be happy.

Since I can never be the best of the best because it's impossible, I will never lose my work ethic.

The only time I consider anything I have done remotely decent is when some one whom I really respect as a player, a peer if you will, comments as such.

NO ONE should ever consider themselves "great" because there is always some one better and all glory is fleeting.

Lastly I keep drilling over and over again the point that from the bandmix level to the pro level is a huge divide. Most people out here would not last 15 seconds in the Pro world.

Note I said MOST, not all.

Wegman, I listened to your "March to Victory."
Sounds good, man, but I'd remix it so the drums were like, 5 - 7 dB softer. They put the guitar in the background, but I think you should be in the forground.

Wegman, I listened to your "March to Victory."
Sounds good, man, but I'd remix it so the drums were like, 5 - 7 dB softer. They put the guitar in the background, but I think you should be in the forground.

Thanks for taking the time RhythmMan. I appreciate that and your comments.

Your critique is 100% on but I can't remix it. That is one take improvised on the spot. It went straight from the mixing console to the CD recorder. I actually had to do some major EQ-ing to get my guitar that far to the forefront. The original recording I am way in the back ground.

When you hear that tune that is why I joke about electronic drums and giving drummers a volume knob. Those are electronic drums on that track. The only acoustic drums on that tune are the snare and Hi-Hat. Everything including cymbols is electronic. I cut that track out of a twenty minute jam. I have some other things we did where the drummer kept turning up his volume until he was clipping.

If you listen to the tune Escape that is the next part of the jam and they ran together.

Lastly l like being in the background, you can't here my clams then.

From a couple of days ago

What's really hard is creating it a sound or style you don't feel comfortable in.

Been there, done that. and boy is it true. I hate country,, always have, but around here if you want to play at all you have to play country, there's no such thing as a band that doesn't. So I have to try and play country leads and sometimes if I end up in a sit in situation I'm playing country songs I've never even heard before.

I've also auditioned for a couple of metal bands, both called themselves "hard rock" and turned out to be full tilt metalheads. Not my thing, but why not jam for a while anyway just for fun, I was there to play and they hadn't had a chance to jam with a lead player, or only with crummy ones, so off we went. Both tried to hire me and I Had to turn them down, not because I couldn't do it, I apparently did well enough they liked it, but metal is just not my bag.

One of them is a story I've related a few times, I have a Peavey MX, 130 watt SS preamp through tube power amp, at that time I only had a 1x12 speaker cabinet. The only effect I owned was my trusty Ibanez SD 9 Sonic Distortion. I kept trying to play clean leads whenever it sounded like it would fit better and the other (rhythm) guitar player kept turning up his full stack 100 watt Marshall till the knob wouldn't go any more and I was still playing clean leads...he was amazed, he didn't think one speaker would hang with the band, and he turned out to be the one who really tried to talk me into joining up.

But like I said, that's just not my style, and boy did I have a hard time trying to put leads into their originals that I'd never even heard before...They'd tell me what key, maybe give me a quick sample and off we'd go.

Similar to that was in the 80's when I played fill in gigs for local bar bands, all cover tunes. A friend would call me whenever they called him looking for a guitar player when someone got sick or whatever. I spent 3 years getting onstage with bands I just met a half hour ago, no idea what they would play or how, what key, anything. They'd name a song and give me a key and off we go. Rock, country, disco, 50's, blues, cajun you name it, if they could play it I'd be expected to put some guitar in there. Being primarily a rock and blues based player it's not easy to come up with a good lead to a cajun song usually done with lots of accordion...sometimes just the rhythm part was a major challenge.

A really good point was made earlier about surrounding yourself with people who have nothing but compliments. I agree with that completely, I actually take it one step further, I want to be in the band where I'm the weakest player in the bunch. I'm no Eric Johnson, far from it, but I'm good. And if I'm the weakest player, it will be a hell of a band and I'll probably be able to count on them to be straight with me instead of just saying everything is great. If I need my ego polished up a bit all I have to do is grab my acoustic and go to a friend's house. He and whoever drops in will take care of that in short order, but I've had enough of it. I usually try NOT to pick up a guitar for that reason and the fact that they seem to think I'm a human juke box. How the hell do you play Smoke on the Water on an acoustic??? Free Bird...(I'm sick of that one, won't even touch it) One girl (drunk) got really snotty one night because I didn't sit there and play everything SHE wanted to hear...I told her 5 or 6 times I don't do "Me and Bobby McGee" and she still practically ordered me to play it. But she thought I was fantastic...yeah right...my fingers were soggy from wet weather, I could barely play at all...

I see that any time I play at clubs with cover bands, everybody in the place seems to want to tell me what a great guitar player I am. When I know for a fact it's been one of my worst nights in months I just say thanks and move on, it's no use telling them "hey I sucked out loud tonight", I've tried that, it doesn't work. so I don't pay a lot of attention to people who always think everything I do is terriffic. I'd much rather have a sounding board kind of person, someone who will actually telll me if something would be better without the break in the middle or whatever. I get sick of being told how great I am when I know I'm just barely above average at best...

I'd love to be able to hook up with a few people who have some interest in originals and the ability to focus...around here that's not going to happen, I can't even find a cover band...

Damn I just scrolled up to proofread and try to spot things like "then" where "than" would be appropriate, spelling and so forth (I'm anal about that) and it looks like once again I'm getting too long winded and rambling all over the place...sorry guys (and girls) but I hope somebody sees something worth reading through all the drivel for...

Paleopete, I tend to be long winded sometimes too, and so does RhythmMan (No offense man! Just saying, lol), and many others. We all do, do not worry about that. But what you said was very true. A little bit of truth is very helpful, that is for sure. I posted back to something else a moment ago and was talking about how my family says I am good. But, that is not necessarily what I want to hear. I want constructive criticism, but maybe they do not want to hurt my feelings. *Shrug* I will not know how good I am till people give me true opinions.

Yes though, it is hard to find the right guys to jam with I would imagine. Good luck with that in any part of this world. I am beginning to realize the only way is to drive a long distance to someone. However, if you are a serious musician looking to really make it in the big music world, you need to do everything possible (No matter how annoying or hard).

Note: I am not saying I am perfect, but I am just as bad as you with all the grammatical corrections (The than and then, is, it, that, the, commas, quotations, etc...). So no worries, I definitely know how it is. Lol.

Peace out, man, GuitarAnatomy.