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Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:33 am
by BestGuitarist
https://soundcloud.com/dayne-nobody-iv/ ... ose-part-2

like, share, love it..as Slacker once said, you can'y't hit a wrong note with jazz music.. ONE LOVE
:D :mrgreen: :arrow: :mrgreen: :idea:

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:02 pm
by GuitarMikeB
Typical guitarist 'excuse' - there are no wrong notes, it's jazz!

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:21 pm
by Mordgeld
GuitarMikeB wrote:Typical guitarist 'excuse' - there are no wrong notes, it's jazz!


Well, it's definitely a wrong note if any "jazz notes" show up in a non-jazz composition. I think you also need to look like a hipster to get away with "jazz notes", right?

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:44 pm
by Emigdio Enganador
I think you might be sounding jazzier, than some previous posts, by a few by increments at least.

Mordgeld might be on to something there about hipster thing.
Maybe you could try wearing an Odd Fellows hat with a Kung Fu shirt when you record,
to help the 'jazz notes' fit in better.

Works pretty good for this guy!
https://youtu.be/8zHSI08k1_c

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:19 am
by BestGuitarist
ripping off Santana?..or it sounds like to me.. :D :lol: :|

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:46 am
by Emigdio Enganador
BestGuitarist wrote:ripping off Santana?..or it sounds like to me.. :D :lol: :|

Santana did the best he could to try and rip-off John Coltrane ... this guy is much better at it.
But you would have to actually have listened to Coltrane to figure that out. :wink:

Some Coltrane ..
https://youtu.be/IsBbM5PIAHk

"John Coltrane is still probably one of the greatest musicians of this century. His tone truly puts demons on a leash. His gift is directly from the mind of God and is very powerful. ..... The first time I heard a Love Supreme, it was really an assault. It could've been from mars as far as i was concerned, or another galaxy.
I remember the album cover and the name, but the music didn't fit into the patterns of my brain at that point. It was like someone trying to tell a monkey about spirituality or computers, you know, it just didn't compute."
- Carlos Santana

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:32 pm
by Mordgeld
Gulag McStradinsky wrote:...Santana did the best he could to try and rip-off John Coltrane ...


Is saying Santana was 'ripping off' Coltrane a bit strong? We all follow our idols at least a bit. Is Santana following the style or is he straight cribbing Coltrane's riffs? As I am not super familiar with this style (learning, tho), these are honest questions.

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:59 pm
by BestGuitarist
https://youtu.be/8zHSI08k1_c
This guy is riffing on one repetitive monotonous theme..dont see how you equate this to free-form jazz?..if anything it is fusion with a hint of underlying funk music thrown in for good measure..lol :roll:

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:34 pm
by Emigdio Enganador
Mordgeld wrote:
Gulag McStradinsky wrote:...Santana did the best he could to try and rip-off John Coltrane ...


Is saying Santana was 'ripping off' Coltrane a bit strong? We all follow our idols at least a bit. Is Santana following the style or is he straight cribbing Coltrane's riffs? As I am not super familiar with this style (learning, tho), these are honest questions.

Yes, I would consider it a bit strong, Dane brought the term into the conversation, rather than quibble over the semantics, I just went with "ripping off" as a term for 'borrowing from' or 'influenced by' etc.

I've been a fan of Coltrane's music since I was 13 years old.

Several phases of Coltrane's contributions to jazz have been hugely influential to many musicians. Coltrane in turn was very influenced by others like Ravi Shankar and Igor Stravinsky, to name only a couple, for example.

He had already explored chord progressions in the late 50's with his "Giant Steps" phase.
In the early 60's he began to become very interested in music from India.
That influenced his development of a modal approach to his music.
Some might dismiss it as "riffing on one repetitive monotonous theme".

Santana was involved with a couple of tributes to John Coltrane ...
Both utilize tons of "riffing on one repetitive monotonous theme"
With John McLaughlin:
https://youtu.be/y3BFn4TuLL0
With Coltrane's wife, Alice:
https://youtu.be/W3Z8Kicu7CA

Coltrane's last phase was a very free form style
https://youtu.be/96Bnvuzb_5U
(the technical quality of this recording is poor, but the playing is awesome!)
His band at this point included sax player Pharoah Sanders and drummer Rashied Ali,
both of whom, as well as Ravi Coltrane (John's son) have recorded albums with the guitarist Tisziji Muñoz. To my ears, Muñoz is much more adept in the style than Santana.

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:26 am
by Emigdio Enganador
BestGuitarist wrote:https://youtu.be/8zHSI08k1_c
This guy is riffing on one repetitive monotonous theme..dont see how you equate this to free-form jazz?..if anything it is fusion with a hint of underlying funk music thrown in for good measure..lol :roll:

Well, Dayne, you clearly have a fresh set of batteries in your Dunning-Kruger effect, so
there would seem no point in arguing about what can be considered 'free form jazz'.

If you would like to hear something undeniably jazzy that delves into free-form, here you go
https://youtu.be/37W5mdXcnQs ... an Anthony Braxton quartet playing a Coltrane tune.
Or maybe some more Tisiji playing something a little jazzier, a little more free form?
https://youtu.be/t_3HJmdGULM (can you see how the hipster tea-shades help with the 'jazz notes'?)

Re: Free Form Jazz -Allen/Dooley

PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:25 am
by BestGuitarist
YASSS! to Braxton..that is free form jazz..other dude didn't listen to his stuff..yet.. :)