General Music Chat

Yod you know at the church I use to go to here in smalltown MO
The plumber and the electrician as well as the carpenters, masons,
pavers, sign men, finance and so many more other ways not to forget
all the things the women do and they all donate there time and a lot
of times there material to make the church "better", and they all tithe
I always thought the musicians should play for free and tithe like the
rest of the church members

Now if you only sang with the voice God gave you.........

Lay your instruments down

Talbot,

To be honest I don't have the patience to do what you did. I'm probably not going to stick around a completely new church where I know absolutely no one to sweep floors when there's already someone playing my instrument (the band leader) on the stage. I could just as easily visit the next church where there is still a vacancy for my instrument (keyboard).

My intent here is to let OP know that the problem many musicians like myself face who might be inclined to visit a new church in order to play for free is that the church usually does a really poor job of facilitating new members into their music ministry. It's a very ad hoc process and usually you just have to talk to the right guy (the band director) to get involved. As a visitor it's difficult to know who that guy is or even how he/she should be approached. I don't know the solution, I'm not paid to create church operating proceedures, I only know the obstacles from my point of view.

A straight forward approach, usually works

A straight forward approach, usually works

With who, where, when? I'm sitting here in the pews looking at a hymnal and a copy of the old king james bible trying not to stick out too much. If you're the new guy to a church you're probably having a difficult enough time figuring out what in the world is even happening and where are the bathrooms are located.

Again my main concern here is trying to present this problem from the point of view of a complete outsider, where a church will often only get one chance to get their attention. What is OP's approach exactly toward retaining the services of these wouldbe pro bono performers?

Anyhow it's kinda moot now, he made the thread and hasn't returned

I'm mainly a guitar player, I always start with the guitar players
Usually I try to do this between Sunday school and church, or after church

I"m not real worried about where the bathrooms are located, but more
Impressed with the gals I'm hoping to back up, dressed up and smelling good

One chance? Man if I want something I might take several chances, not take no for a answer

Oh this thread has been unthreaded

I'm not speaking in behlf of myself, I'm speaking in behalf of the typical new musician who floats in and out of a church service. What is OP's plan to retain the services of these wouldbe pro bono performers in the event they actually do happen to attend one of his services? From my experience most churches do a really poor job of addressing that question.

You just can't build a baseball diamond in the middle of a cornfield and expect professional baseball players to magically show up and start playing ball. It's a process and that process needs to be planned and executed.

Zenith

I'm not suggesting you sweep floors. We do that because it saves money and we are a small church and want to have money left over to donate to the synod for missions.

But I do suggest that you choose a church wisely and certainly not based upon whether they need a musician.

Talbot

Yod you know at the church I use to go to here in smalltown MO
The plumber and the electrician as well as the carpenters, masons,
pavers, sign men, finance and so many more other ways not to forget
all the things the women do and they all donate there time and a lot
of times there material to make the church "better", and they all tithe
I always thought the musicians should play for free and tithe like the
rest of the church members

Now if you only sang with the voice God gave you.........

I should probably make the distinction between a professional and a journeyman/apprentice. Most churches don't have very good musicians....because the very good ones take paying jobs outside the church. That really should change because the devil is getting all the good music.

I have always donated my time to my home congregation. I donate my time to anyone and everyone who needs it. I played concerts for a decade without expecting anything in return, though there are always many expenses involved.

That isn't the issue.

The issue is when a church takes for granted what they are asking musicians to do. It wouldn't hurt them to give a tax-deductable receipt for services donated if they really can't afford to at least cover their gas expenses. They should do this for the musicians, plumbers, landscapers, etc...just like they do when someone puts cash in the plate IF ANYONE IS GETTING PAID. In my congregation, most who came to faith made that decision during the worship time. Have you ever heard of anyone coming to faith because the toilets worked, or a building had nice paint? Those are not as critical to the growth of a spiritual community. THAT is why the tithes in the Temple went to the musicians! (and there weren't any Pastors)

A musician's labor should be counted towards the tithe that church administrators expect. Every hour of every rehearsal should be counted, just like a plumber would be. It's too important a function in the Body of Christ to neglect.

Ted - I think you are dead wrong on this issue.

Then you disagree with God. He set that pattern in both Temples. Take it up with Him

It's an honor to play for free for love of Christ.

King David bought the threshingfloor for the Temple from a man who said he would give it away freely in service to God. What was the righteous king's response? "I will not give to God that which costs me nothing" yet this is what churches are doing with a precious resource given to them. Maybe not yours...but it's still happening everywhere.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't donate your time with no expectation. God knows I have and will continue. What I'm saying is that is a man-made model which guarantees the best musicians in the world will not be sitting in church this Sunday.

Zenith

I'm not suggesting you sweep floors. We do that because it saves money and we are a small church and want to have money left over to donate to the synod for missions.

But I do suggest that you choose a church wisely and certainly not based upon whether they need a musician.

Talbot

Well that's not me... I don't have pure motives, I'm a bad hombre on account of my father's tainted Taino snakeblood.

But then again this thread isn't about me, this thread is about OP and his inability to attract musicians to his church to play for free. My question for him is what plans and/or proceedures has he put into place to retain said individuals once they do in fact walk through the doors?

[ My question for him is what plans and/or proceedures has he put into place to retain said individuals once they do in fact walk through the doors?

and a very good legitimate question it is!

Ted

I'm not a Jew from the old Testament. Modern Christians are obliged to tithe - we are to give all we can and I'm glad to do it.

Talbot

Right.....you're a jew from babylon.

That's where the church model comes from. The Babylonian synagogue is where they first started having a speaker/teacher and receiving offerings to support a system where men attempt a substitute for Temple worship. Thanks for agreeing it's a man-made model.

Jesus never saw a church, nor endorsed any. He didn't come to start a new religion either. In every question asked of Him, He endorsed the system His Father established (while not endorsing the individuals in charge of it at the time)

The only "model" God ever endorsed was the Tabernacle in the wilderness and the two Temples. They were built after pattern of what God showed Moses in HEAVEN, so "IF" you have any part in Him, you are will be worshipping in the Temple of New Jerusalem. Not the "church" because there isn't one mentioned in the bible at all, actually. King James had to force that into the text from a word that simply means "community" with no religious connotation at all.

According to God's specific instructions, the tithes went to paying Levitical priests who were musicians and were supported/fed by the sacrifices they collected. Its the only mention of worship musicians in the bible, yet it's pretty clear for those who have eyes to see.



.

I could care less what the Israelites were obliged to do. That was a theocracy and this is not.

I did however mis-speak when I wrote that 'modern Christians are supposed to tithe.' (a typo) We are not under that obligation though most of us prefer to do that or more.

My church is not one of those hog pens where rich preachers ride around in limousines and private jets. Only the pastors (and teachers if we have a school) get paid and not much. When I was working I made twice what our pastors make, yet who was performing the more important service?

Forget the legalism and give all you can, which in my case, isn't much, although I actually did tithe and serve for nearly twenty years - but only because I wanted to.

I'm astonished it annoys you that musicians would work for free in the church. In Romans we are reminded that our 'good works were stored up for us from before the beginning of time.' Each according to his particular talents eh? This is an honor, not an obligation and it surely is not a 'job.'

When my health permitted I was playing in two bands and the commercial side was in fact a job. The church? Never.

Talbot