This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#253443 by schmedidiah
Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:40 pm
Computers, yes. But mostly phones, with or without crapola ear buds. Have you read about bands like Nine Inch Nails taking an album and mixing it two completely ways for a mainstream (highly compressed) release on CD and digital and a more old school analog mixdown for an "audiophile" release on vinyl?
#253446 by GuitarMikeB
Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:32 pm
It's the devices (computers, iPhones), but also the earbuds and little speakers - and the people using them don't really care about the crappy quality. :lol:

The trick to good mixing is that it translates well onto any playback device. To do this, you need a monitoring system that gives you an unbiased sound, acoustic treatment in the room, and experience knowing what music sounds like on that system/in that room - reference mixes.
I listen to lots of other people's mixes on my system, and read the comments from others to what they hear on these mixes - as well as what they hear on my mixes. I burn CDs and play them in my truck, on my home stereo and on the 5.1 video system, too. Listening with headphones is a good way to check a mix, too (but not to do the mix itself because you lose stereo perspective).

Jookey - that Pioneer system is probably not giving you a flat response at all, even with the EQ flat, as home stereo speakers have always been designed to accentuate some part of the spectrum- the bass and highs most often, but some for the mids (those who love guitar rock want that). When I worked at a stereo store in the early 80s, I learned which speakers had the more-flat sound (KLH, Advent, Boston Acoustic, for example) - but these weren't the big sellers.

Mixing for different mediums (CD vs vinyl) has come more to the forefront with the resurgence of vinyl with audiophiles. And its needed - you have to keep the bass volumes lower on vinyl or else you risk causing the needle to jump the groove.
Computers 'accentuating the 1MHz' range? No, it's the speakers. 3" (and smaller) speakers have no bottom end - anything below 100Hz is not reproduced at all, all you hear are the harmonics. And the 1MHz range is where those small speakers work most efficiently. Earbuds and headphones tend to have louder bass - proximity effect to the eardrums.
#253459 by RGMixProject
Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:01 pm
I like and use USB from the computer to a USB mixing board hooked up to three different speakers and three types of headphones.

I use this for internet, gaming and casual music playback.

and my wife thinks its over the top.

My internet system.JPG
My internet system.JPG (92.42 KiB) Viewed 3201 times
#253470 by GuitarMikeB
Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:55 pm
Before I got my current JBL monitors, I was using some small M Audio monitors, some surprising good little computer speakers that were in small 4" deep cabinets and an old set of bookshelf speakers with coax 6" drivers, hooked up to an old Sony receiver. The comparisons gave me 3 'opinions', but figuring out the ideal mix form them was challenging ... I had them wired up so that the computer boxes were powered by the onboard soundcard, and the MAs and receiver from my interface. It was then a matter of selecting the playback path, and turning on/off the gear. PITA.
I contemplated using my USB mixer (or the non-USB Behringer) to do some of the controlling. Then the onboard soundcard died, and I was using the big mixer for running my open mics (and the Behr was a 'just in case' spare), so never got everything hooked up that way. Now with the JBLs, using the other speakers would be a waste of time.
#253496 by GuitarMikeB
Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:35 pm
jookeyman wrote:
GuitarMikeB wrote:The trick to good mixing is that it translates well onto any playback device.


Mike- this is the catch. I'm fixing to re-mix the CD I've been telling you about to sell online so I want to get this right. I just started getting back into the mixing game a couple of months ago after a long layoff and now it looks like I'm faced w/ a new dilemma w/ all the mobile devices being used now that weren't that common when I first started a long time ago. I've listened to my mixes on three different computers. One had a pair of small Altec-Lansing speakers and they sounded great. One had a Dolby 5.0 w/ a sub for gaming and the bass blew my head off. I tried a pair of earbuds on this computer and mix was o.k. The third computer was one w/ a very cheap set of headphones and there was very little bass response.

GuitarMikeB wrote:Jookey - that Pioneer system is probably not giving you a flat response at all, even with the EQ flat, as home stereo speakers have always been designed to accentuate some part of the spectrum- the bass and highs most often, but some for the mids (those who love guitar rock want that).


I think I'm going to go w/ my gut instinct here. The Pioneer cabs are tri-axial so they should be pushing a flat signal. The amp also has a 5 band LED monitor for EQ so I can watch each band and get a good idea which frequency range is not cutting through and I can concentrate on that range during playback. I have 30 band EQ in my mixing software so I can pin down a range (approx. 6 bands) to pull or push to get the amp meters running nearly level. Never thought about hooking my PA speakers up. My wife would run me out of the house!! :D


The fact that the sub system was too bassy shows the A-L system is not giving you a good representation of the bass when you listen with it. What's the low end frequency spec on them? Cheap headphones - no bass? No surprise there!
When I'm in doubt on a mix (and the problem, too, is 'ear fatigue' - after listening to a mix over and over, I lose the ability to judge it well), I'll post it in the MP3 Clinic at homerecoridng.com. Those guys can be brutal, but getting several people to listen and give their opinions can make it easier to figure out what to do to fix it.
Last edited by GuitarMikeB on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#253510 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:55 pm
Every decent engineer will use multiple playback configurations during the mix to get the general idea of how it sounds in all environments, but the point of mastering is to make it sound (relatively) the same on all types of audio systems.

I could see a separate mix for vinyl since the bass is much warmer through a DJ's sound system.

.
#253522 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:09 pm
RUI Musik wrote:
Actually the point of mastering is to make sure that the tracks on the CD or record sound the same volume-wise from song to song. There's no way any engineer can make a recording sound good on all systems..



That's not what I'm told by several uber world-class Producers and Mastering engineers. Mastering is also about managing levels, yes, but the point of evening the dynamic range is to make all the parts equally audible whether it's going through an AM radio or Led Zepplin's PA System.
#253528 by GuitarMikeB
Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:37 pm
"Evening out the levels" - I assume you mean compression (let's not get into 'loudness wars' - google it), but over-compression can kill the dynamics of a song - the soft parts are made louder, the loud parts are limited down so it all sounds the same volume.
The song I posted in this thread earlier (The Winds of Change) is not overly compressed, because the mix itself is fairly loud throughout (except the wind/gong intro). If you look at the stereo waveform, you'll see it pretty much bangs the top throughout, with the exception of the breaks at the end of each chorus. I did crank up a brick wall limiter on it, so that the verses see almost no compression, but the choruses get more - the volume then stays very constant all the time. I may reduce the limiter's compression a bit next mix.

As Jimmy says, it's the mixing engineers' job to get the mix to sound good on any playback system, and he may indeed use multiple playback systems - usually a combination of near and far-field monitors, and maybe a mono crap box (Avantone), too. All in the same acoustically treated room. The mastering engineer is likely only going to use one playback system, and will be trying to get the most volume out of the whole album/project, and also even up volumes and tone between the different tracks.
Last edited by GuitarMikeB on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#253534 by RGMixProject
Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:22 pm
Unless you have sat down in the studio with one of these guys.... your only a 2nd best at most for guessing what it takes to mix a cd..
If ya all are gonna' start pulling out guns and shooting each other on "How to Mix a song" how about
read about these people below and contact them!

Dave O'Donell
Ted Jensen
Maxime Le Guil
Bernie Grundman
Greg Kurstin
Alex Pasco
Emily Lazar
Shawn Everett
Bob Ludwig
Steve Price
Jochem van der Saag
Jorge Vivo
Paul Blakemore

Tell them Rockcity sent you and say the word's "Phase Cancellation" you will be on the phone for hours.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests