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#11001 by DaveGTD
Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:04 pm
Irminsul, I haven't seen any evidence linking Ritalin or other pharmaceuticals to bad singing, particularly. I have read research that links it to drug abuse later in life.

Trying to exercise common sense, these drugs have the purpose of making kids act like short adults, or like girls, rather than like boys. There are some children, no doubt, who might benefit from the treatment. However, these pharms are overprescribed -- often by school nurses rather than by doctors.

I ask you: prevent a boy from experiencing young life as a boy, and what will he become? Not a macho man, unless he takes other pharms -- steroids. And early use of Ritalin will predispose them to steroid abuse. These kids are being wimpified for the convenience of adults.

The drug also messes with concentration. A kid who cannot concentrate on a task can't master it. That would include music.

Bush has touted his "No Child Left Undrugged" (my name for it) mandatory child psychiatry. This will certainly benefit the pharmaceutical companies, but I'm not so sure it will benefit the bulk of the kids.
#11002 by BassPlay3r
Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:23 pm
fisherman bob wrote:name me any current popular singer who has any power in his voice. I can't think of any. I have a new slogan: spare the rod spoil the child, and spare the ritalin and save the vocal chords. Later...


Doug Pinnick is one of the powerful singers out there today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiUJdVCX1cY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPF_re3oHOk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRMsenNRKHQ

#11014 by Irminsul
Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:26 am
DaveGTD wrote:Irminsul, I haven't seen any evidence linking Ritalin or other pharmaceuticals to bad singing, particularly. I have read research that links it to drug abuse later in life.

Trying to exercise common sense, these drugs have the purpose of making kids act like short adults, or like girls, rather than like boys. There are some children, no doubt, who might benefit from the treatment. However, these pharms are overprescribed -- often by school nurses rather than by doctors.

I ask you: prevent a boy from experiencing young life as a boy, and what will he become? Not a macho man, unless he takes other pharms -- steroids. And early use of Ritalin will predispose them to steroid abuse. These kids are being wimpified for the convenience of adults.

The drug also messes with concentration. A kid who cannot concentrate on a task can't master it. That would include music.

Bush has touted his "No Child Left Undrugged" (my name for it) mandatory child psychiatry. This will certainly benefit the pharmaceutical companies, but I'm not so sure it will benefit the bulk of the kids.



Oh I agree with you. We are a ridiculously overmedicated society, often with people playing their own doctors; which is just plain stupid. I think some of this is happening because we've lost touch with our own spiritual development too, but that's another subject.

#11028 by Werewolf67
Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:22 am
OK, as to the lack of good quality singers, here's a theory....

Most of the singers out there are listening to their iPods and whatever with headphones, singing along their merry way, and have no clue what they truely sound like! They don't really "hear" what they sound like, but through that quirk of the marvelous inner ear, think they sound great.

I conider myself good at backing vocals, but then I can get buried in the mix so it doesn't matter :twisted:

As to the over perscription of various psych drugs to our kids, anybody remember when it was "sex, drugs, and rock & roll"? Now adays its "ritalin, MTV, and the soccer mom van".

#11033 by DaveGTD
Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:46 pm
Werewolf, you are probably correct about the Ipod/shower self-critic.

Yeah, I remember sex drugs and rock & roll. If one is going to self-medicate, it would be good to choose one's poison wisely. I knew guys who liked PCP. That stuff will make you real stupid.

I knew a great guitarist who was fired because he wouldn't try LSD. As if it's the drug, not the musician, that makes the music.

It would also be good to not let it affect the music detrimentally.

We had to fire a good drummer once because he'd get stoned and disparage his own band onstage. I fired a singer because he would get drunk and forget the lyrics as well as the showmanship.

I got a lot of work because other bands would get loaded and act like fools instead of professionals. I'd follow a lot of such acts into venues, and the owner would be expecting more of the same. When he found out that we weren't ignorant fools, he was ready to work with us on that account alone. Or course, it did help that we drew people.

The SD&R&R crowd would not be fond of government-approved drugs anyway. And since steroid use atrophies the testicles as well as thr brain, they probably wouldn't want that, either. Takes some of the "S" out of the equation.

#11135 by Irminsul
Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:06 pm
Werewolf67 wrote:OK, as to the lack of good quality singers, here's a theory....

Most of the singers out there are listening to their iPods and whatever with headphones, singing along their merry way, and have no clue what they truely sound like! They don't really "hear" what they sound like, but through that quirk of the marvelous inner ear, think they sound great.

I conider myself good at backing vocals, but then I can get buried in the mix so it doesn't matter :twisted:

As to the over perscription of various psych drugs to our kids, anybody remember when it was "sex, drugs, and rock & roll"? Now adays its "ritalin, MTV, and the soccer mom van".



Every singer I have ever heard opine on the subject, cringes when they hear the sound of their own voice (save for the legend Roy Orbison). But it's crucial for a singer to constantly hear their own singing voice so they can grow and improve. The same goes for performers, who greatly benefit from watching videos of their performances.

Cringe away but this is necessary to hone your skills. When all you see of yourself is from your own little bubble, you live in an illusion.
#11195 by fisherman bob
Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:48 pm
Years ago I used to hate the way I sang, but there's been so many times in the past that I HAD to sing when we lost a lead singer. Somebody's got to do it was my attitude. After singing lead for over 25 years I actually like my voice now. Your voice actually does grow and change over time (hopefully for the better). You HAVE to listen to yourself. That means making recordings of yourself over and over and REALLY listening to what you sound like. It's no different than progressing on an instrument. You can't do it in a vacuum and you have to get feedback from other people. DON'T CRINGE. Just keep practicing. I believe almost anybody can improve over time. If I can do it anybody can do it. Later...your friendly neighborhood bluesman fisherman bob
#11196 by fisherman bob
Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:59 pm
to make it easier for teachers to deal with them. A medicated child in school is much less likely to give the teachers a hard time. Especially now that corporal punishment is no longer allowed. My son was a particularly hard child to deal with. He's now 240 lbs of muscle and particularly intimidating. When he got into his teens he started becoming the school bully. Of course he was medicated like most other kids. He even started bullying and head-butting me. Now he's a most cooperative person. You know why? I had enough of his crap and gave him a bloody nose. After that he never bothered me or anybody else. A good swift kick in the ass will get any kid's attention, and possibly spare the vocal chords later in life. Later...

#11216 by Court29
Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:17 am
Some people can not hear the note before they sing it. Like me. I'm tone deaf, but I'm a great sight reader and can play whatever is put in front of me.

#11253 by CallyG
Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:52 pm
profile121248 wrote:the resin there are no good vocalist?

they have all come down with LSD.or commonly known as lead singers disease. If they are not sick with it then they are already working. My recommendation is to learn to sing and combat LSD by self intervention.
Yep, do it your self.



I believe that this is half the problem in the first place. By taking this advice you are creating another wanna be singer who doesn't put the time into practicing and inevitably turning into the jokes that you've been describing. If you are going to do it yourself, you better realize that it's not easy, and that you should practice singing without an instrument before attempting to sing and play at the same time.

~Cally~
Need Boat insurance?

#11425 by Paleopete
Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:35 am
I know this thread is a few days old, but I had to chime in. This is my first post here, by the way, so HI everyone, while I'm at it.

I know exactly where a lot of you folks are coming from, I learned how to play guitar and sing at age 5, was harmonizing by age 8 and never looked back. Now I'm just over 50 and a good but not great vocalist and harmonizing comes naturally. I'm trying real hard NOT to be lead singer any more, I'm tired of it, and don't consider myself good enough at it anyway, but for as long as I've been playing in bands or trying to, I usually find out I'm the only one who really can sing.

I've seen people like one comment above, try to get a harmony part going and they jump on the same note I sing...but the people who are off pitch on 3/4 of the notes drive me nuts. And those who try to sing out of their range and end up screaming. Singing is actually a controlled yell, but it must be controlled or it sounds like crap.

One note about pitch control many of you might pass along to "singers" who have pitch problems. Especially during rehearsals, press your finger into your ear, just enough to close the little flap in the middle and really hear yourself. You'll be amazed how much difference it makes after a few weeks. You start to automatically listen to yourself more closely. And rehearse vocal harmony parts without mics, just one acoustic guitar if possible, no instruments if you can get by with it. The idea is to hear the voices, not the equipment.

Ego problems...That's why I try not to get into two guitar bands, guitar players and their egos are just as big a problem as people who think they can sing and really shouldn't be within 120 yards of a mic. Get two lead players going and they invariably end up trying to out-loud each other, and before long the overall sound quality is gone down the drain.

I'd give my eye teeth to find a band with a couple of decent singers who can harmonize. But as someone else mentioned, most of the good singers I can find are already gigging, and around my area most of the good musicians period. I've been looking for a bass player for 2 months, haven't found one yet, playing or not...

Singers aren't the only ones hard to find, good musicians in general are not very common and when you do find them most are more interested in the party than the music. I've had a "play now party later" attitude for around 10-15 years now and have only found one band that had the same idea. Unfortunately I had to quit that band and move out of town and now I'm dealing with heavy drinkers and drug problems again...and sorry folks, NOBODY plays his or her best wasted, period. I drink very little at all, 3 or 4 beers a year, no hard drugs at all and NEVER any drugs or alcohol onstage at all. Someone who is not a good singer to begin with really sucks after 3 or 4 drinks.

I can't remember who originally posted this thread, I haven't gotten familiar with all the forum posters' nicks yet, but good luck to you, I know how hard it is to find musicians who can actually sing and/or play, and not just think they can. Try the excellent suggestions made earlier - want ads, vocal instructors, music stores, local bands, etc. I even got some good tips from that post, I never thought of checking with vocal instructors...

Sorry to ramble so long, sometimes I can be long winded...

#11428 by DaveGTD
Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:18 am
Especially during rehearsals, press your finger into your ear, just enough to close the little flap in the middle and really hear yourself.


Many years ago I taught this technique to a band member. We were in the audience at a concert and the singers onstage were doing it. It tickled him no end to see it.

#11471 by Paleopete
Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:22 am
I've seen singers do that onstage and on TV over the years, the Bee Gees were the first ones I saw I think, and I wondered why so I tried it myself and found out I could really hear myself a lot better. I rarely am able to use this technique onstage myself, I'm usually playing guitar too so both hands are busy. After being onstage with really loud bands off and on for 30 years a lot of the time I think it may be because they can't hear themselves in the monitors.

With a band I played in years ago that was my signal to the sound man for more monitor. If my finger went to my ear he knew I could not hear the monitor. If I then pointed at someone else I could not hear them. That made our stage mix lots better, and having a great sound man I knew I didn't have to worry about what it sounded like out front, he refused to settle for less than the very best sound quality he could get at a good, solid volume level but not overbearingly loud. Boy do I miss that guy! The few chances I had to step out front of the mains I could hear every little sound...snap my fingers into the mic and you could hear it out front. You could even hear a whisper. And our cover tunes sounded like listening to the album, the mix was that good.

That makes a huge difference to a singer, if you can't hear what you're doing you have no idea whether you are hitting the right notes or not. Same for instruments as well, if I can't hear my guitar I have no idea what I just played. I've tried playing sax when I couldn't hear the thing, that really sucked...sure I know what notes I played, any certain key combination only plays one note, but I couldn't tell if I was in tune or not. And not being a great sax player by any stretch of the imagination a lot of the time I'm not sure what notes will work to begin with. That's even a bigger problem with harmony vocal parts, hearing all the vocal parts is then crucial. My note has to be right and in tune or the whole thing sounds terrible, same for everyone else.

In reference to a comment made above, I've always thought my voice sounded terrible too. Other people think it's good, some even say great but I've always thought they didn't know what they were talking about, to me it sounds awful. I'd rather keep my mouth shut a lot of the time...shut up and play your guitar! :D

#11486 by RhythmMan
Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:14 pm
Another thing that works is ear plugs. Yeah, go ahead & laugh - and I know they look funny.
But - put them in, and in 15 seconds your perceptions adjust to the sound/tone change. Your voice (and the bass) will seem louder . . .
.
And your ears won't be ringing all day long on the following day . . .

#11974 by Irish Anthony
Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:35 pm
do you think i can sing???? :?

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