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Yeah Jeff it is the disgrace of our country right now. Lack of respect for the heritage that was paid for with the blood of many good men.

Now we spill that blood on a whim.

Freedom has a cost, but disrespect of that very fundamental principle, the very foundation of individual expression, growth, and human achievement seem to get lost, even among people that scream to the joy they are allowed with their musical talents.

Few will understand the point you make. I do.

I agree on most counts. However, I must admit- I personally do not believe we are confronted by a political problem. That's a symptom.

If we regard our world and judge what we see by thirty years ago, or even ten - we know immediately that something in wrong. Big time wrong.

It's all gone sour. The schools, many of the churches, politics (both parties) and things don't seem to work quite as well as they used to...

It's supernatural. These horrors we see are manifestations of that. Abortion, Marxism, political correctness etc. All part of it.

I don't see it getting better. Doesn't matter a tinker's damn who we vote for or if we demonstrate in front of the statehouse. This country's badly divided so killing some folks won't solve anything - unless one side or the other is willing to kill nearly half the population.

Unless we can find a way to deal with the fundamental causes of this decline and stop focusing on the symptomology - it will just continue until we bottom out.

I see these issues through the eyes of a Christian believer. Others do not, yet still sense that things are going downhill fast.

The Christian hope of course, is for national repentance. Everyone wishes things were better.

Sadly, I don't think we'll find a way to stop the race to the bottom. I believe we are hosed. This is the second time for me. Gets old.

Talbot

MikeTalbot wrote:I agree on most counts. However, I must admit- I personally do not believe we are confronted by a political problem. That's a symptom.

If we regard our world and judge what we see by thirty years ago, or even ten - we know immediately that something in wrong. Big time wrong.

It's all gone sour. The schools, many of the churches, politics (both parties) and things don't seem to work quite as well as they used to...

It's supernatural. These horrors we see are manifestations of that. Abortion, Marxism, political correctness etc. All part of it.

I don't see it getting better. Doesn't matter a tinker's damn who we vote for or if we demonstrate in front of the statehouse. This country's badly divided so killing some folks won't solve anything - unless one side or the other is willing to kill nearly half the population.

Unless we can find a way to deal with the fundamental causes of this decline and stop focusing on the symptomology - it will just continue until we bottom out.

I see these issues through the eyes of a Christian believer. Others do not, yet still sense that things are going downhill fast.

The Christian hope of course, is for national repentance. Everyone wishes things were better.

Sadly, I don't think we'll find a way to stop the race to the bottom. I believe we are hosed. This is the second time for me. Gets old.

Talbot

Great post Mr. Talbot!

As a liberal, not from USA, I see part of the issue is how on the behaviour of one drunken, or semi-drunken ignoramus a-hole, you are willing to brand a large group of people as American haters and liberals. That is exactly where polarization of population and interests starts and you immediately start off antagonizing people. One could be a Christisn and still be liberal.
Rather than antagonizing a segment of the population, by painting everyone who does not have your exact views as America haters snd liberals, why not start by reaching out. One never knows where you could commonality, even among liberals. You might be surprised how much you have in common and how little actually divides you.
Yes, a lot of good people did perish in building your country. But, you are quite vague on what I assume on the times you want to reinstate. You might want to clarify that. The supremacy of christianity? The supremacy of whites over all? No dissent from leaders views? Which leaders? Political? Religious?
I do not ask snidely or sarcastically. I am sincere and respectful. I may not agree with some, or all, of your views but I will NOT run down you or anyone else for their views and their freedom to do so. Sound familiar??
I will definitely not run down or denigrate any person who has answered the call of their country. They and their families have paid a heavy price for their country and that is to be respected.
But, I am a liberal. Does that sutomaticaly make an America hating libetal?? I hope not. As with conservatives, there are many stripes of liberals and to braodly paint every liberal as an America hater is the type of broad brush lumping of people into categories that so polarizes the world, not just America, today.
Respect for each other. I will respect you and others until something happens to change that. And I will let you know when and why if it does. But I will not lump all conservative Christians into the same category.

brian51662 wrote:As a liberal, not from USA, I see part of the issue is how on the behaviour of one drunken, or semi-drunken ignoramus a-hole, you are willing to brand a large group of people as American haters and liberals. That is exactly where polarization of population and interests starts and you immediately start off antagonizing people. One could be a Christisn and still be liberal.
Rather than antagonizing a segment of the population, by painting everyone who does not have your exact views as America haters snd liberals, why not start by reaching out. One never knows where you could commonality, even among liberals. You might be surprised how much you have in common and how little actually divides you.
Yes, a lot of good people did perish in building your country. But, you are quite vague on what I assume on the times you want to reinstate. You might want to clarify that. The supremacy of christianity? The supremacy of whites over all? No dissent from leaders views? Which leaders? Political? Religious?
I do not ask snidely or sarcastically. I am sincere and respectful. I may not agree with some, or all, of your views but I will NOT run down you or anyone else for their views and their freedom to do so. Sound familiar??
I will definitely not run down or denigrate any person who has answered the call of their country. They and their families have paid a heavy price for their country and that is to be respected.
But, I am a liberal. Does that sutomaticaly make an America hating libetal?? I hope not. As with conservatives, there are many stripes of liberals and to braodly paint every liberal as an America hater is the type of broad brush lumping of people into categories that so polarizes the world, not just America, today.
Respect for each other. I will respect you and others until something happens to change that. And I will let you know when and why if it does. But I will not lump all conservative Christians into the same category.

My bad I forgot the asshole insulting the veteran was drunk.

Geez, Jeff - take a chill pill and relax a moment. Brian was talking about the drunk neighbor in the video YOU LINKED. Then you start cutting down him and Canada? WTF? You're going to give yourself a heart attack from stress, dude!

welcome to bandmix, and thanks for that well thought out and perfectly reasonable post, brian.

please don't be put off to BM by JHALEY's boorish, and childish behavior. though he regularly and DAILY likes tossing off HIS propaganda....he has a real problem w anyone else expressing THEIR views and opinions on a message board if they differ even slightly from his.

is that hypocritical and does it go against the same principals of free speech that this county was founded on? of course it is. but that irony is lost on him.

sadly, this is the same behavior and set of double standards that too many of his team routinely engage in. (notice I didn't lump ALL ultra conservatives into the same bag)

two sets of rules from two different rule books.

so, if you do hang around here and have the outlandish nerve to express your views and opinions here....you can expect more name calling from him, soon to be followed by him placing you on IGNORE after he's exhausted all the profanity and feces slinging available to him.

unable to make his case w mature and calm rational argument to back up his myopic views .....those are his only tools available.

again...welcome aboard.

first, we must define liberal.. what is a liberal? if they are a tree hugger does that make them liberal? or does it make them a greenie? if you proteast the killing going on in some foreign country does this make you a liberal, or somebody with compassion? a pacifist?

"... if you protest the killing going on in some foreign country does this make you a liberal, or somebody with compassion? a pacifist?"

How about 'none of the above?'

I believe nations should observe the same laws that I observe: no deadly force unless there is an immediate imminent threat of death or great bodily injury. When it is truly time for force I go to the head of line.

However:

The only justified action this country took after 9/11 was wiping out that nest on Tora Bora. They were not Taliban - but men who had fought alongside the Taliban and the Americans against Ivan. They were former allies, now known as Al Qaeda.

Note that Bush could have nuked that fortress/ mountain, and ended the war that same night. He did not. There was a brief moment in time when he could have gotten away with that. Instead, he actually left a gate open so Osama Bin Laden and his merry men could escape. At the behest of his Saudi masters no doubt. I call that treason but that's just me...

The actual terrorists were people from Saudi Arabia. But the Saudis always get a pass - Bush holds hands with them, Zero bows to them. It is the unholy alliance of Saudi, Qatar and God help us, Israel, that are trying to get us to attack Syria. The fact that Zero was champing at the bit to attack the Christians in Syria (another ally) means that Bush is not the only traitor in this conversation.

And i guess I do feel pretty bad when Bush/Zero slaughter wedding parties in countries that did not harm us. Because those lying, murdering scum did it in my name.

For all you hot blooded "let's go get 'em" types consider this: Those freaks in Nigeria who kidnapped little girls - wouldn't we all like to see them dead? I know I would.

But it is not our country's business. Nor is any other of that other horrific nonsense the govt has been peddling: Egypt, Libya, Yemen etc. I say to those who really give a sh*t about that: do what I did. When I gave a sh*t about something (Rhodesia) and was young enough and fit enough to act - I acted.

Keep the rest of us out of it.

Talbot

MikeTalbot wrote:"... if you protest the killing going on in some foreign country does this make you a liberal, or somebody with compassion? a pacifist?"

How about 'none of the above?'

I believe nations should observe the same laws that I observe: no deadly force unless there is an immediate imminent threat of death or great bodily injury. When it is truly time for force I go to the head of line.

However:

The only justified action this country took after 9/11 was wiping out that nest on Tora Bora. They were not Taliban - but men who had fought alongside the Taliban and the Americans against Ivan. They were former allies, now known as Al Qaeda.

Note that Bush could have nuked that fortress/ mountain, and ended the war that same night. He did not. There was a brief moment in time when he could have gotten away with that. Instead, he actually left a gate open so Osama Bin Laden and his merry men could escape. At the behest of his Saudi masters no doubt. I call that treason but that's just me...

The actual terrorists were people from Saudi Arabia. But the Saudis always get a pass - Bush holds hands with them, Zero bows to them. It is the unholy alliance of Saudi, Qatar and God help us, Israel, that are trying to get us to attack Syria. The fact that Zero was champing at the bit to attack the Christians in Syria (another ally) means that Bush is not the only traitor in this conversation.

And i guess I do feel pretty bad when Bush/Zero slaughter wedding parties in countries that did not harm us. Because those lying, murdering scum did it in my name.

For all you hot blooded "let's go get 'em" types consider this: Those freaks in Nigeria who kidnapped little girls - wouldn't we all like to see them dead? I know I would.

But it is not our country's business. Nor is any other of that other horrific nonsense the govt has been peddling: Egypt, Libya, Yemen etc. I say to those who really give a sh*t about that: do what I did. When I gave a sh*t about something (Rhodesia) and was young enough and fit enough to act - I acted.

Keep the rest of us out of it.

Talbot

Thanks for your service Mr. Talbot you are a hero to me! A wise one at that!