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there are three "basic" ninth chords.. they are all five note chords..all constructed by adding an extra note to the four note seventh chords..the new note is actually a 2nd, but because it is added on top of the seventh chord , a third above the 7th, it's called a 9th..the 9th in fact equals a 2nd plus one octave, in other words it is the same note but is an octave higher.. all three basic ninth chords comprise four intervals of a third stacked on top of one another..they therefore can be seen as two triads, the top one anchored to the upper note of the bottom one, the sound created by varying the five notes in a ninth chord will depend on which notes are omitted, or which notes are DOUBLED..and how the notes are spaced (chord voicing).. this is on the house

I hadn't thought about it like that. Good stuff.

What are these three ninth chords you are referring to? Is that just positions on the fretboard?

Talbot

MikeTalbot wrote:I hadn't thought about it like that. Good stuff.

What are these three ninth chords you are referring to? Is that just positions on the fretboard?

Talbot

Mike, they are the Ninth chord / Spelling: 1st 3rd 5th b7th 9th
Minor Ninth chord / Spelling: 1st b3rd 5th b7th 9th
Major Ninth chord / Spelling: 1st 3rd 5th 7th 9th

they are just "positions" on the fret board depending on what string is the root note

Dane

I find this fascinating. These three ninths remind of the minor scales, normal, melodic and harmonic - different by a note - sort of like your ninths.

I had a sort of epiphany the other day, thinking about scales and what not - there is a code there, a pattern, if I can find it and learn it.

Then I won't have to memorize scales, I'll just play them based upon their definition.

Talbot

The first one I think of in Feeling Alright or a lot of bluesy-rock stuff.

The second one - is this a major-7th style? if so, this goes with a nice 'happy' sound type of song.

The third one - minor 9th is an accent type of chord, it wants resolution to a non-9th chord.

duh I have no idea what the hell you guys are jabbering about

next: .. our study of extended chords will delve deeper into the ALTERED ninth chords..a simple mathematical calculation shows that the permutations can produce 27 different ninth chords, many are mis-spellings or "synonyms" of other chords..excluding the three lbasic ninth chords (the ninth, the minor ninth, and major ninth) this leaves 12 altered ninth chords

jw123 wrote:duh I have no idea what the hell you guys are jabbering about

LOL. and then there's the chords w altered ninths! sharp 9 or flat 9.

John, my guess is you probably use these chords all time even if you ain't hip to their names or the theory behind 'em.

for instance this E7#9 chord that was a fave of hendrix and james brown....

0 7 6 7 8 0 (the B string 8th fret is the #9) if you play it like this x 7 6 7 8 x it becomes an easily moveable chord.

one of my fave voicings for an E7 add 9 chord is found on the top 4 strings....

x x 12 11 12 12 (G string 11th fret is the 9th) this is cool chord to slide into for James Brown type rhythms.

dane...that's some scary synchronicity right there my friend!

i was taking my time as i was typing my last post (before you put your's up) to check that i was correctly numbering the frets.....i post...and poof!!! there's your post just above talking the same stuff!

wow...great mimes and all that!

LOL, I know I use em all the time Planet, it just cracks me up seeing them written on here, but at least this is a musical thread!

I just have spent a long time trying to unlearn theory, I was working on a new song the other day and threw in a little transition that went totally against my theory days, but it sounded good, in the end thats what matters sounding good, and I have developed some pretty good instincts on that level.

Played with some new cats sat who I might start playing with some, just for shits and giggles, and they were doing some original bluesy type stuff and I was putting in these weird transitions that the other guy wasnt familiar with, but once again it sounded good.

Carry on Lynard, sounds like you are really coming around as a player.

jw123 wrote:... at least this is a musical thread!

AMEN to that!

I just have spent a long time trying to unlearn theory, I was working on a new song the other day and threw in a little transition that went totally against my theory days, but it sounded good, in the end thats what matters sounding good, and I have developed some pretty good instincts on that level.

yep, i agree. if it sounds good...it IS good.

these altered ninth chords can be grouped into the three families of dominants, minors, and majors.. the dominant family offers the greatest number of altered ninths..they can be divided into those that feature only one altered note(the 5th OR the 9th) and those that feature two altered notes, (the 5th AND the 9th)

see this: altering a PERFECT 5th ? there are perfect 4ths and perfect 5ths, now the muse wants you to dick with the perfect 5th? no wonder jazz has not many listeners?

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:these altered ninth chords can be grouped into the three families of dominants, minors, and majors.. the dominant family offers the greatest number of altered ninths..they can be divided into those that feature only one altered note(the 5th OR the 9th) and those that feature two altered notes, (the 5th AND the 9th)

only two, dane? what about altering (raising) the 11th ....or are you consideing the sharp 11th the same as a flat 5th?

the question comes to mind..... what do you get when ya drop a piano on a bottle of scotch?








....a flat fifth.

I'm not sure how long my free lesson will go on, might not get to theory on 11th chords and 13th chords Mark, but would like to think of this thread as "open source" or wiki where anybody can contribute.. like jw said, at least it's a music thread.. we are musicians? ain't we?