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you young people be sure to sign up October 1, 2013 or ASAP, since a lot depends on you young healthy bucks signing up for medical insurance to help drive the cost on down in 2014.. YES!

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:you young people be sure to sign up October 1, 2013 or ASAP, since a lot depends on you young healthy bucks signing up for medical insurance to help drive the cost on down in 2014.. YES!

At least for those who didn't get the presidential health care premium pardon that the rest of us will pay for them.

I heard a couple whacko tea-party congressmen are gonna try and shut down the federal government again to keep obamacare from getting off the ground.. I don't care what you say, those tea-party nutters are just plain mean and greedy.. make everybody suffer that way, except the wealthy, they won't get hurrt, they can always buy themselves out of a jam..

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I heard a couple whacko tea-party congressmen are gonna try and shut down the federal government again to keep obamacare from getting off the ground.. I don't care what you say, those tea-party nutters are just plain mean and greedy.. make everybody suffer that way, except the wealthy, they won't get hurrt, they can always buy themselves out of a jam..

Dane,

Don't be so ignorant. You are spouting liberal news propaganda. The government shuts down weekends and all holidays. The idea is to FUND EVERYTHING EXCEPT that tax bill called health care. When Reagan was in office the government was shut down multiple times but no one noticed it. You have to be operating on one brain cell to believe the liberal propaganda that is being spread. Ignorance is a choice.

Well I agree with Dane that this is an idiotic strategy which only makes enemies out of people who would otherwise accept a reasoned and measured response.

It might be different if it had a snowball's chance in hell...but it doesn't. It will not pass in the Senate, so it ends up being an excercise in futility where we've only poked a stick in the eye of everyone.

Really dumb idea.



.

yod wrote:Well I agree with Dane that this is an idiotic strategy which only makes enemies out of people who would otherwise accept a reasoned and measured response.

It might be different if it had a snowball's chance in hell...but it doesn't. It will not pass in the Senate, so it ends up being an excercise in futility where we've only poked a stick in the eye of everyone.

Really dumb idea.



.

If it is defunded, as all monies are appropriated through congress, the government will not be shut down period. That is not only a good idea but it is a constitutionally accepted idea. That was the intent of the founders to stop out of control government programs. Fubama will not change that law, the house will not change that law, and the senate will not change that law. It can only be defunded to protect the American people from it. It is NOT a health care law, it is a control law. It controls what you eat, and every other aspect of your life including refusing health care to individuals that they deem are too costly. In short, it is a death bill for some, and a control bill for all others. There is only one way to control this unconstitutional debacle neither voted for or approved of by the American taxpayer. With this control bill you will have to answer to the IRS, and be subjected to blackmail by them for anything you stand up against that this regime does. They will be able to demand you go on a diet, that you no longer eat certain "treats", and that you no longer do anything that THEY deem harmful to your health, whether it truly is or not.

Since you believe that the method given through this constitutional republic is not appropriate, lets hear your idea. And if you have one, how will you get a power hungry regime to let loose its hold over you willingly?

Or do you suggest that we simply roll over and play dead and not fight for what liberty we have left?

Slacker G wrote:

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I heard a couple whacko tea-party congressmen are gonna try and shut down the federal government again to keep obamacare from getting off the ground.. I don't care what you say, those tea-party nutters are just plain mean and greedy.. make everybody suffer that way, except the wealthy, they won't get hurrt, they can always buy themselves out of a jam..

Dane,

Don't be so ignorant. You are spouting liberal news propaganda. The government shuts down weekends and all holidays. The idea is to FUND EVERYTHING EXCEPT that tax bill called health care. When Reagan was in office the government was shut down multiple times but no one noticed it. You have to be operating on one brain cell to believe the liberal propaganda that is being spread. Ignorance is a choice.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/the-defund-obamacare-movement-falls-on-hard-times-20130818

"I think it's the dumbest idea I've ever heard of," Republican Sen. Richard Burr of North Carolina said late last month. "Listen, as long as Barack Obama is president, the Affordable Care Act is going to be law."

Slacker G wrote:

yod wrote:Well I agree with Dane that this is an idiotic strategy which only makes enemies out of people who would otherwise accept a reasoned and measured response.

It might be different if it had a snowball's chance in hell...but it doesn't. It will not pass in the Senate, so it ends up being an excercise in futility where we've only poked a stick in the eye of everyone.

Really dumb idea.



.

If it is defunded, as all monies are appropriated through congress, the government will not be shut down period. That is not only a good idea but it is a constitutionally accepted idea. That was the intent of the founders to stop out of control government programs. Fubama will not change that law, the house will not change that law, and the senate will not change that law. It can only be defunded to protect the American people from it. It is NOT a health care law, it is a control law. It controls what you eat, and every other aspect of your life including refusing health care to individuals that they deem are too costly. In short, it is a death bill for some, and a control bill for all others. There is only one way to control this unconstitutional debacle neither voted for or approved of by the American taxpayer. With this control bill you will have to answer to the IRS, and be subjected to blackmail by them for anything you stand up against that this regime does. They will be able to demand you go on a diet, that you no longer eat certain "treats", and that you no longer do anything that THEY deem harmful to your health, whether it truly is or not.

Since you believe that the method given through this constitutional republic is not appropriate, lets hear your idea. And if you have one, how will you get a power hungry regime to let loose its hold over you willingly?

Or do you suggest that we simply roll over and play dead and not fight for what liberty we have left?

If you really believe that pissing everyone off who works with or for the government (including the military) is a good idea, then there's nothing I could do to convince you.

But when someone causes me a problem I don't go punching their neighbors, to make them angry. It only reflects badly on me to do that.


There are other ways which would be better. None of them will be advanced under the current liars, crooks, and thieves in D.C.

They've all been bought.

Americans will get what they asked for soon enough. I think people will only figure out that we've been given the "bait & switch" when the IRS starts coming into their houses without warrants. It will either break us up into about 5 or 6 smaller nations, or cause a hard swing to the right.

God help us either way.




.

yod wrote:

Slacker G wrote:

yod wrote:Well I agree with Dane that this is an idiotic strategy which only makes enemies out of people who would otherwise accept a reasoned and measured response.

It might be different if it had a snowball's chance in hell...but it doesn't. It will not pass in the Senate, so it ends up being an excercise in futility where we've only poked a stick in the eye of everyone.

Really dumb idea.



.

If it is defunded, as all monies are appropriated through congress, the government will not be shut down period. That is not only a good idea but it is a constitutionally accepted idea. That was the intent of the founders to stop out of control government programs. Fubama will not change that law, the house will not change that law, and the senate will not change that law. It can only be defunded to protect the American people from it. It is NOT a health care law, it is a control law. It controls what you eat, and every other aspect of your life including refusing health care to individuals that they deem are too costly. In short, it is a death bill for some, and a control bill for all others. There is only one way to control this unconstitutional debacle neither voted for or approved of by the American taxpayer. With this control bill you will have to answer to the IRS, and be subjected to blackmail by them for anything you stand up against that this regime does. They will be able to demand you go on a diet, that you no longer eat certain "treats", and that you no longer do anything that THEY deem harmful to your health, whether it truly is or not.

Since you believe that the method given through this constitutional republic is not appropriate, lets hear your idea. And if you have one, how will you get a power hungry regime to let loose its hold over you willingly?

Or do you suggest that we simply roll over and play dead and not fight for what liberty we have left?

If you really believe that pissing everyone off who works with or for the government (including the military) is a good idea, then there's nothing I could do to convince you.

But when someone causes me a problem I don't go punching their neighbors, to make them angry. It only reflects badly on me to do that.


There are other ways which would be better. None of them will be advanced under the current liars, crooks, and thieves in D.C.

They've all been bought.

Americans will get what they asked for soon enough. I think people will only figure out that we've been given the "bait & switch" when the IRS starts coming into their houses without warrants. It will either break us up into about 5 or 6 smaller nations, or cause a hard swing to the right.

God help us either way.




.

Yeah Right. And the military isn't pissed already over this crap?? What a joke. OK. It is a law that can only be stopped now, not later. And what makes you believe that legislators will listen to the people? That's a joke, they are legislating away our rights daily against our will.

Great solution though. Lets just roll over and play dead instead of fighting to keep our freedom. Yeah, that's the ticket. Don't rock the boat. Lets all willingly go into slavery to this despotic racist tyrannical regime. And when the oppression becomes too much to bear we can talk about how we should have tried to stop it through any means possible. That is if they leave us alive long enough to talk about it, and if the person we talk to isn't a undercover rat for the regime.

Great ideas. You win.

I'm not happy about it one little bit, Slack.


But that particular solution is just stupid. It would cause the opposite reaction than you think, and set conservatives back just in time for the mid-term elections.

Take all that energy you've got and put it into action. But don't hurt everyone around you because that plays right into the hands of those who want to divide America

We're all going to need each other in a very short time.



.

America has not ever been this divided. Even in 1860.

EG - you have Dane, who is not as nearly as dumb as he sounds when he calls me (the tea party) 'ignorant and greedy' assuming that to be the case.

Simply because I don't agree with him.

Other folks on this forum call each other terrible names and I can almost hear the heavy breathing. Folks - this ain't healthy.

I hope all the angry folks in this battered husk of a country like violence - they are fixing to get some. I wish there was somewhere to go to get away from all this. Violence is a lot less fun than people think.

Violence is always the logical end of anger. Beware. I'm not blind to how 'good' it feels to really cuss someone out. Pretty soon the cussin' leads to punching and right on up the side of the slippery slope.

I guess I shouldn't worry. We have Republicans and Democrats in leadership positions and they are claim to have our best interests at heart. I can only say that we are pretty damn lucky they don't hate us - although I don't see what else they could do to harm the country any more than they have.

Talbot

First let me say that I trust Boehner (the bane of the GOP) as far as I can throw the Titanic, but this is one case that I think he's doing the right thing

He is disallowing the shut down of the government now, for a fight on the budget in December that will expose the folly of spending so much money on this monstrosity called "health-care" but more appropriately called "Destruction of the American economy".

I realize that this won't please the "scorched earth" agenda crowd, but it also won't make us all look like heartless bastards to those who are depending on government paychecks and are already feeling the pinch of the sequester.

I think Boehner is correct in assessing the sequester situation as a good political hammer, if put into play versus Obamacare.


----------------------



Boehner told Republicans it’s important for the GOP to hang tough on the sequester spending cuts and said he will keep to the GOP’s current strategy of highlighting politically unpopular provisions of the health care law.

On the sequester:

The president is desperate to get rid of the sequester . . . so desperate that he says he’ll shut down the government if Congress follows the law and funds the government at the levels his sequester mandates. The president’s threat to shut down the government if we implement his sequester is not a defensible position. The American people won’t stand for it, and we’re not going to be swayed by it. When we return, our intent is to move quickly on a short-term continuing resolution [CR] that keeps the government running and maintains current sequester spending levels. Our message will remain clear: Until the president agrees to better cuts and reforms that help grow the economy and put us on path to a balanced budget, his sequester — the sequester he himself proposed, insisted on, and signed into law — stays in place.

On Obamacare strategy:

We will also continue to implement the plan to stop Obamacare that I outlined last month. The delays the administration has been forced to implement in the health-care law have given us a golden opportunity to talk about fairness: “If big business gets relief from the president’s health-care law, families and small businesses should, too.” This message strikes a chord with Americans. When people hear it, it resonates. The president has already signed seven bills delaying or repealing parts of his health-care law. We’re going to keep the pressure on the president and Senate to act on the delay bills that passed the House in July with significant bipartisan support. You may have seen Shelly Moore Capito do this in Saturday’s GOP weekly address. We’re going to keep holding votes that chip away at the legislative coalition the president is using to force Obamacare on the nation.

I realize that this won't please the "scorched earth" agenda crowd, but it also won't make us all look like heartless bastards to those who are depending on government paychecks and are already feeling the pinch of the sequester.

Government shutdowns have NEVER effected entitlements, wages of gov workers, pension payments, social security or any other programs. All of these are exempted. The only ones that have any effect on them are the non essential programs. Crap that should n0t be funded anyway for the most part. Besides, this would not be a shut down of the government, it would only be a defunding of the health care debacle.

So if it isn't done legally through defunding (A measure to protect citizens from an unfair gov program written into the constitution} then we will be stuck with it. Already they are refusing treatment of many patients under this program. You will have an unnamed bureaucrat deciding if you are worth treating, if your meds cost too much, or if you are not living a "proper" lifestyle. Too fat and so forth. Those with long term illness, mental or physical will be denied treatment when monies become tight.

Congress, labor unions, and special interest groups will not be required to pay for this program. Already a great many have been opted out and have been exempted from the bill requirements, so this is not for all Americans. Illegals will also be added to the list of non payers getting treatment.. So the burden of payment goes to the taxpayer who is young and healthy in most cases.

A good many hospitals no longer take Medicare patients, and will not take patients under this program. Hospitals will be centralized. So what does that mean? Many will shut down due to the financial loss of payments by the government. That means someone with a severe injury will have to travel to a central location to get treatment instead of getting rushed to a hospital in the immediate vicinity. In many cases this will result in the deaths of those who have sustained serious injury as opposed to being saved.

Pre existing ailments and life long ailments will have treatment dramatically cut as those will serve no purpose in this "new society". All patients will be evaluated by their usefulness to society and the long term care costs of treating them as well as their age. Since the IRS will be in charge of your healthcare funding, you will also be denied treatment just as some political groups were denied exemptions. NO? Just wait and see. If it isn't defunded, we are stuck with it for all time. Since patients are already being denied treatment I expect that this procedure of denial will increase dramatically.

If anyone believes otherwise, wake up and smell the roses. This is a regime that has no concern for the individual other than for political gain. But then I suppose you don't accept that either. When the IRS has control of every bit of information in your life, you are subject to their demands in every aspect of your life. If you do not agree with what is happening to America you will be silenced by blackmail or any other pressure they will have to use against you. You don't care? You have nothing to hide? Perhaps not today, but tomorrow you may be targeted for your religion or political beliefs or whatever.

If you still can't see the ramifications, you will when they start effecting your life in ways you haven't even imagined. This regime loves injustice, unfair practices, lawlessness, violating their oaths to serve you, Not so? Ask Zimmerman or Paula Dean what it is like to be targeted by unscrupulous power hungry demagogue's who feel you may be a threat to them or serve as political gain for them if you are targeted.
After all, they are ALREADY targeting individual citizens and no one is coming to their aid. They want us to get used to that so that they can easily pick off anyone who does not agree with the regime.

This is tyranny. Our government has already been taken over. Our highest court in the judicial system has declared this unconstitutional health care bill constitutional through lawlessness. Evil is called good, the guilty are not prosecuted while the innocent are targeted, injustice rules at every level. Can't see it? OK. Propaganda rules the media. There is more crap about a rodeo clown making a joke than there is about someone being targeted by self professed racists. No injustice here... move along folks.

I have a t-shirt that says, "I didn't say it was your fault...I said I would blame you". That is exactly what happens if we talk about shutting down the government. It gives Democrats someone to blame for the things they have caused.

However, if we pit Obama against his own policies and laws (sequestration) it can legally be denied funding without a government shut down.

Obama has threatened to shut down the government if sequestration doesn't end. Most Democrats will never go along with that, but it would expose them all as the "bad guys" in a bad economy without anyone else to blame, and divide them as a party.

I think it's an excellent strategy, politically, because most people are not really keeping up with the details and only see the headlines.

But we don't really have the votes to shut down the government anyway so it's like a kid who sits down and sulks when they don't get their way. No one likes that kid, not even his mother.