Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Hey Everybody,

I wanted to let any and all aspiring musical artists/groups that are interested in having music videos made know about Cinely. Cinely is an exclusive film social network that spans 60 countries and thousands of talented filmmakers including over 20 Oscar noms and numerous Oscar and Emmy award winners as well. We also feature students from the best film schools around world.

A feature we offer musicians is the ability to post a song via a soundcloud link. Once the song is posted everyone across our network is alerted and anyone can submit ideas for a music video. You may then browse through all the ideas and if you like one you may enter negotiations for the video to be made. Best of all, posting is entirely free and you have no requirement to make a video if you don’t find an idea/price-point that works for you.

You have nothing to loose by posting and potentially a lot to gain. We have big name directors but also tons of very talented students/recent-grads who you can choose between and will work for much cheaper than anyone else you’d find. Here’s a link to where you can post projects on Cinely, halfway down the page is a video that explains the functions of the site well:

http://www.cinely.com/content/

This is what a post would look like to our users.

https://www.cinely.com/content/music_vi ... oenix5ZAQ/

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at any time. I’ll check back on the forum periodically but if you email me I’ll get back right away.

Cheers!

Will Agramonte
Director of Development
will@cinely.com

Ehh I'll pass.

Folks, If you want to get a video done, you need to understand :

1) You pay a premium for quality. There is no negotiation.
2) Your requirements dictate the work.
3) Dont publish your work 'free' on soundcloud or any other online venue. Preserve the integrity of your project.

paperdog.. I agree with rule #1

Rule #2 should read: See rule #1.

Production is everything. Songwriting is everything, and corrected by a good producer Video production only reinforces great song/production. There is no discount on quality.

Thanks for the support fellas.

PaperDog,

I can definitely understand the skepticism and I do agree that usually great quality does cost a premium.

I strongly disagree, however, that "there is no negotiation." Cinely gives you the opportunity to have filmmakers compete to make your video and you absolutely can negotiate with them.

As far as not posting your music on soundcloud, you're the first musician I've come in contact with that has been so adamantly against it. In this day and age if one fan has your CD, your best songs will probably end up on the internet. The way musicians make their living is off of touring and the best way to get your name out their is with a viral video.

Kramerguy,

First off, great name. I'm a huge Kramer/Seinfeld fan(hopefully that's your reference).

I totally agree that a video is only a compliment to a great song and production value is key through the entire process. Video's do, however, often define a song's wide-spread popularity. I hope you can reconsider and just check the site out. Cinely is invite-only as to maintain a high quality of work throughout our user base and you can check out the reels of everyone who submits an idea.

One thing I disagree with is that sometimes(I don't like using the words never or always) you can find a discount on quality. Cinely is the best place to try to find an affordable music video for a lesser known musician or contact an oscar winning director if you're a bigtime headliner.

I hope some people on this forum give it a chance!

Will

Sorry about the unkind welcome, Will. There's a lot of testing for new people here.

Imo, it sounds like a great way to find people who are willing to help an artist make an affordable high quality video. No one is forcing you to buy anything, Dawg. It's the free-market economy at work!

I've got a son who is an indie film making student at Academy of the Arts in San Fran. They do some really great stuff on a shoestring budget. Video is as important as it ever with YouTube being the new radio.

I'm probably going to check into it. Thanks.



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willcinely wrote:
As far as not posting your music on soundcloud, you're the first musician I've come in contact with that has been so adamantly against it. In this day and age if one fan has your CD, your best songs will probably end up on the internet. The way musicians make their living is off of touring and the best way to get your name out their is with a viral video.



Will

Sorry Willy but that's absolutely total bullshit. (No personal offense intended) The only people getting rich and famous from Sound-cloud submissions, is Sound-cloud, who makes a windfall by guaranteeing advertisers premium exposure to highly desirable market segments...


Can you name one (1) well known celebrity band/Artist that's 'made it" from being on Sound-Cloud,followed by a viral video?

Also, QUALITY is not something you can really barter. The film labels in Hollywood can write their own tickets..Nobody 'negotiates' the cost of a video. You lay down the requirements, there's a cost assigned to it and that's that. You either pay the fee or you don't have a video. Any thing less than that, smacks of amateur. Sorry..but its true.

The best thing I can recommend to any musician is to stay brick and Mortar and promote the old fashioned way, by knocking on all the venue doors they can, build a following through real work, and then taking the plunge into a professional grade production of that work...That's how musicians succeed. At best, the internet can be used to tell people what events to attend.

Yod,

I'm glad to hear you'll check it out! Please have your son contact me if he's interested in joining Cinely. The Academy of Arts in SF is a great school. I work part time in the bay and one of my best friends went their for film. He loved it.

Paperdog,

I would never argue that being on soundcloud will make you rich or famous but it is one of the most common ways a huge number of musicians share their work with their audience.

We're currently in negotiations with a number of major labels to use our service. Their interest is based on the idea that we can offer great quality while saving them money. As a person who works in the film business I can guarantee you that negotiation is a huge part of preproduction. There are tons and tons of talented filmmakers out there who are at different stages in their careers and timings plays a huge role in the price of projects. Cinely is a way to connect with a ton of filmmakers and find who is the best fit for your project.

Justin Beiber is an example of a celebrity who got famous through youtube videos. Did you know who Psy was before the Gangnam Style music video? Macklemore found his first nation wide exposure through a music video as well. His exclusive music video director is a member of Cinely.

There is a certain honor in finding success the old fashioned way but arguing it's the only or fastest way to get exposure is silly. A viral music video can be viewed by 1 million people in a day. Even if you had 5 gigs a week with an audience of 5 thousand people each, it would take 40 weeks to be seen 1 million people.


Will
will@cinely.com

Justin Beiber is an example of a celebrity who got famous through youtube videos. Did you know who Psy was before the Gangnam Style music video? Macklemore found his first nation wide exposure through a music video as well. His exclusive music video director is a member of Cinely.

There is a certain honor in finding success the old fashioned way but arguing it's the only or fastest way to get exposure is silly. A viral music video can be viewed by 1 million people in a day. Even if you had 5 gigs a week with an audience of 5 thousand people each, it would take 40 weeks to be seen 1 million people.

And this, my friends, is precisely the explanation to descibe why the world will never ever have the privilege of seeing another Beatles, Dylan, Clapton, Zappa, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, etc... or any other 'real' musical artist.

Its all been given over to You tube. and the guy who comes up with the easiest mantra (tto appease the lowest common denominator), will have 1 million hits (likes). But Dont ever look for a psy to show up in any "Hall Of Fame" unless of course, you count Ripley's Hall of Banality as an achievement

And this, my friends, is precisely the explanation to descibe why the world will never ever have the privilege of seeing another Beatles, Dylan, Clapton, Zappa, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, etc... or any other 'real' musical artist.

I think that eventually it will be the reason why we DO see the next "Beatles" (or whatever) because it will open the doors to connect artists with listeners worldwide, instead of just nationwide. It's all still in a state of flux but will soon be mastered by someone.

And that "new beatles" may not be something you particularly like because new music is always about a new generation. If you (older folks) like it, the younger generations will hate it for no other reason.

But to the point at hand, any business you go into requires an investment of manufacturing and then marketing.

It's stupid to make a recording if you have no marketing plan. You might not benefit financially on the first try, but producing great songs will certainly pay off faster if it is part of a larger promotional plan that includes video on YouTube.

The need for bands with great music to also get quality video production is just reality, bro.

The only choice is to either play, get out of the game, or complain because those who play the game well are winning.

That doesn't replace the need for great music being the foundation, but I don't understand the resistance to making a video?

I agree with Yod.
The crumbling paradigm of the old music industry will bring nothing new of any great significance at this point. The "open source" paradigm of "youtube" etc. opens the door to the entire world for performers as well as listeners and viewers. Now music from cultures considered to be of insignificant marketability by the Anglo-American music establishment can present their sounds on an equal platform without having to try and fit a 'western-pop template'. Youtube is a great resource to hear music made for the love of making music overflowing from the richness of tradition and / or creativity .. rather than the cargo cult copy cat mentality that supplies the "music industry" with product.

http://scientopia.org/blogs/scicurious/ ... pop-music/

I especially love seeing all those casual videos on youtube of musicians of all levels just jamming in their kitchens or at private parties over in Africa, Brazil or India. It offers my eyes and ears freedom to hear music unfiltered by "music industry" accountants.

I think people can now have easy access to such a variety of music that we have far less need to depend upon record executives and DJ's deciding what is good for us to listen to. It obsoletes that sort of "covert censorship"

Can't believe we found something to wholeheartedly agree on, Vinny!


I think Americans will be surprised at how much great music is being done in other countries by people who have never heard of Van Halen, Nickleback, Toby Keith, Beyonce, or Brittney.

India's music is a living acid trip. Brazilian jazz will scare ya into taking lessons again, and the Polish are simple genius.

Not to mention the fabulous arab musicians.

I think we'll see a melting pot of culture in the near future where American groups will have a larger stage but some very stiff competition besides just the brilliant English.

VinnyViolin wrote: The "open source" paradigm of "you tube" etc. opens the door to the entire world for performers as well as listeners and viewers.

While it buries the real geniuses so deep, that they've given up exposing anything all together. I dont know if your a genius or not Vinny, but I suspect you gave up a long time ago, thanks to You tube, and Band-mix. Under the old, crumbling world, there was still a chance that a hard working promoter/agent could spot, sign and push a worthy act. Never again...thanks to the ocean of banality that surrounds us now.

Now music from cultures considered to be of insignificant marketability by the Anglo-American music establishment can present their sounds on an equal platform without having to try and fit a 'western-pop template'.

Drowning in the sea of Drudge.

Youtube is a great resource to hear music made for the love of making music overflowing from the richness of tradition and / or creativity .. rather than the cargo cult copy cat mentality that supplies the "music industry" with product. I especially love seeing all those casual videos on youtube of musicians of all levels just jamming in their kitchens or at private parties over in Africa, Brazil or India. It offers my eyes and ears freedom to hear music unfiltered by "music industry" accountants.

I cant think of anything with less of a pulse... Even my own amateurish efforts makes me sick to my stomach... The only difference between white -Anglo Saxon banal music and Brazilian /Indian/ Polish banal music, is the accent of the artist that gives interviews about the music. Sorry, but Kitchen and bedroom performances are at best a hopeful rendition and a tiny sliver of what it takes to be a real entertainer. (Music must entertain with commercial magnitude; else it gets written off as the failing opus of a 'band' teacher. )

I think people can now have easy access to such a variety of music that we have far less need to depend upon record executives and DJ's deciding what is good for us to listen to. It obsoletes that sort of "covert censorship"

.

Frank Zappa never had a problem defending against censorship. He thrived in the midst of record Execs/Djs and survived it quite well.
The trouble with You-tubism is that it offer zero quality control (for the sake of saving face as liberal 'cool' people). The truth is 99% of all you-tube vids...actaully suck...I would never pay a dime for that crap. (Lot of good that will do aspiring musicians.

PaperDog wrote:

VinnyViolin wrote: The "open source" paradigm of "you tube" etc. opens the door to the entire world for performers as well as listeners and viewers.

While it buries the real geniuses so deep, that they've given up exposing anything all together. I dont know if your a genius or not Vinny, but I suspect you gave up a long time ago, thanks to You tube, and Band-mix. Under the old, crumbling world, there was still a chance that a hard working promoter/agent could spot, sign and push a worthy act. Never again...thanks to the ocean of banality that surrounds us now.

Now music from cultures considered to be of insignificant marketability by the Anglo-American music establishment can present their sounds on an equal platform without having to try and fit a 'western-pop template'.

Drowning in the sea of Drudge.

Youtube is a great resource to hear music made for the love of making music overflowing from the richness of tradition and / or creativity .. rather than the cargo cult copy cat mentality that supplies the "music industry" with product. I especially love seeing all those casual videos on youtube of musicians of all levels just jamming in their kitchens or at private parties over in Africa, Brazil or India. It offers my eyes and ears freedom to hear music unfiltered by "music industry" accountants.

I cant think of anything with less of a pulse... Even my own amateurish efforts makes me sick to my stomach... The only difference between white -Anglo Saxon banal music and Brazilian /Indian/ Polish banal music, is the accent of the artist that gives interviews about the music. Sorry, but Kitchen and bedroom performances are at best a hopeful rendition and a tiny sliver of what it takes to be a real entertainer. (Music must entertain with commercial magnitude; else it gets written off as the failing opus of a 'band' teacher. )

I think people can now have easy access to such a variety of music that we have far less need to depend upon record executives and DJ's deciding what is good for us to listen to. It obsoletes that sort of "covert censorship"

.

Frank Zappa never had a problem defending against censorship. He thrived in the midst of record Execs/Djs and survived it quite well.
The trouble with You-tubism is that it offer zero quality control (for the sake of saving face as liberal 'cool' people). The truth is 99% of all you-tube vids...actaully suck...I would never pay a dime for that crap. (Lot of good that will do aspiring musicians.

I am not a genius, but I have discovered tons of what I consider great music on youtube. Some of it was created 30 or 40 years ago and no record exec or DJ ever saw fit to let me know about it. What you consider "genius" may differ greatly from what I or someone from India, Poland or Africa considers to be genius.

PaperDog wrote: Sorry, but Kitchen and bedroom performances are at best a hopeful rendition and a tiny sliver of what it takes to be a real entertainer. (Music must entertain with commercial magnitude; else it gets written off as the failing opus of a 'band' teacher. )

Greatest commercial magnitude = lowest common denominator.
I have absolutely no use for commercial magnitude in my music listenings!

My heart and soul listen to the music and I make up my own mind whether I like that music ... not who, or how many other people are applauding the performance.

What seems as no quality control to you, means complete quality control for me.

It gives me access to music that people with your beliefs would suppress with the conviction that they know better than I what is best for me to hear.

If I do not like a video, I simply find another that I do like. Thanks to the enormous and unfiltered variety, I find so many that I do like.

Good riddance to A&R people and promoters!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpH_e0of400

VinnyViolin wrote:
My heart and soul listen to the music and I make up my own mind whether I like that music ... not who, or how many other people are applauding the performance.

What seems as no quality control to you, means complete quality control for me.

It gives me access to music that people with your beliefs would suppress with the conviction that they know better than I what is best for me to hear.

If I do not like a video, I simply find another that I do like. Thanks to the enormous and unfiltered variety, I find so many that I do like.

Good riddance to A&R people and promoters!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpH_e0of400

Universal Definition of Genius: Any single handed capability, which can persuade an entire civilization to change its position and orientation toward a given belief and/or discipline.

Having access to discern an entire forest of trees does not do anything about the weeds therein. Hence, there is NO QUALITY Control at work

You accuse me (People with my beliefs) of suppressing you...? It figures. You'll be alright Vinny , just as long as you don't wear a tin-foil hat, (cause you never know when i might be trying to communicate with you and trying to feed you subliminal suggestions of what's good for you.)

Good riddance to A&R people and promoters!!!!

I dont think you will ever need to worry about a promoter or an A & R guy knocking on your door.

I agree with the proposition that YouTube is an ocean of banality with some nice buried treasure in there somewhere. Still, it is the new medium no matter how we rail at the thought of having to explore it.

The reality of this moment is that YouTube IS the radio channel to the world.

I didn't listen to Top 40 radio, but you couldn't get away from it in the 60s and 70s. Eventually there were FM stations that played full-albums and the less commercial sounds of underground bands. But it had to start with a model that could be monetized.

We're at the same place now with the streaming video stations as the new "Top 40" radio channels. There will be "FM" channels arising, and new technology will make the world a smaller place.

We can complain about it from the dock, or take advantage of being on the ship as it leaves the harbor.





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