Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Would you rather set up and mic a real rig, or use a plugin to lay down tracks with?
Radio quality in mind.

To record? plugins/software/vst's.

To play live? real amp with stomp boxes.

We always record using mic'ed amps, with two mics for the front of the cabinet and one for the rear.

all due respect GT..it's kind of a "which is better vanilla or chocolate?" question, no?

you know the advantages and disadvantages to both. i'm taking a break right now from mixing some older tunes. this one i'm doing now, the gtr was recorded using a JOHNSON J Station ( rather primitive amp modeler from the mid or late 90's) i do love it...it's totally linear in getting your sounds sculpted and up and running w/o diving into layers of menus. (yeah...i'm an old knob twiddlin' dinosaur!). knobs or buttons for pretty much all the functions you're gonna need to mess with.

mostly my exp is that it's easier to record using plugins and such, and there ARE good tones to be found there....hell, sometimes it's a lot of fun just tweaking and seeing what you come up w.....but, since most of the gtr stuff that really gets my ankles hard is less processed gtr into amp tones w plenty of "air"....i do prefer the sound of mic'd up amps. i'm usually too lazy to do it here at home.

mixing down this trk i'm sure wishing i HAD mic'd up an amp for it! ycccch!

back in the late 80's I was lucky enough to join a band that had a real sponsor / backing, and we had a studio at our disposal. I was eager to learn the tips and tricks to recording.

Among everything, the coolest thing I learned was how to mic a guitar amp. One mic on the edge of the cone, near the amp around 1/2 inch to 2" depending on the tone you wanted. Then another mic about 10 feet away on other side of the room (was a 12x12 recording room, padded with absorbers). Ran lines to the board in another room- I stayed in the room with the board and headphoned it. Even to this day it was some of the best recording tones I've ever laid down.

Today, I just go direct out of my GSP1101 and the modelling takes care of everything, but there is some level of "live" energy missing from going direct when laying down heavily distorted tracks.. all others like cleans or even medium OD tones are all excellent direct.

gtZip wrote:Would you rather set up and mic a real rig, or use a plugin to lay down tracks with?
Radio quality in mind.

Real Rig... It's real sound.

Its all digital once it's bussed onto an electronic device...but...The thing with add ons/ PC computed sound is that , with input, you clip the acoustic signals before they even land on the drive. With real mic'd rigs, you get the benefit of capturing and preserving the full sound signal, before it gets converted to digital. That has implications on the 'live' feel of that sound. Itto put it another way...it's the difference between planting a rose or planting a picture of a rose... in the garden of sound... lol!

To me plugs-in lack the sustain and natural response in a players performance. But obviously offer a variety of mods. Which is great if you don't have 3 or 4 different amps to choose from. For an amateur like me it's fun to experiment with different mods one right after another.
But if I had a choice I'd use a real amp set-up for serious recording even though it's more work to get it right.
Quality is in the real amp imo.

Simple: It all depends on the tone you want. It doesn't matter HOW you get it, just that you get it.
However:
Record an mic-ed amp and then in mixdown you find the sound has too much distortion, or too little something else - go back and record it.
So, if you can get the sound you want and it translates to yuor recording how you want, go for it.
Due to noise in my house, I almost always use my amp's DI output for lead parts getting the tone I want in the recording, but sometimes just plug right into the interface and add plugins, if I'm not looking for a good hi-gain or sustain. I'll also typically record multiple takes - ususually at least 2 with each different amp setting, so I can pick and choose when mixing.

it occurred to me- why not do both? Mix down two quick demos, then see for yourself which one works with the song best!

Kramerguy wrote:it occurred to me- why not do both? Mix down two quick demos, then see for yourself which one works with the song best!

I agree with Kramer 100% on this. Do both and trust your ears.
Go with the one that gives the best results or mix and match.

I have been recording guitar since 1976 and most of it has been mic to amp. In the last few years I have gone direct for a few quickie projects and have been very pleased with the results. With careful mic placement you can get excellent results. With lousy mic placement or inattention to mic gain you can get lousy results. Going direct eliminates a whole boatload of variables.

In my limited experience, but many talks with engineers worth their salt, they tend to record two channels concurrently - one DI with no effects or guitar tone whatsoever, and the other mic'd.

The DI dry (no effects) is so that later in the mixing process, they can add effects (guitar tone, re-verb, etc) after the fact, which gives them great flexibility in tweaking the sound they want after the fact, and with the click of a mouse.

The mic'd amp is there for the guitarist so he can get into the music he's playing, and of course, if the mic'd tone is what the artist wants, it's there. But can be mixed with the plugin'd clean track if the guitarist wasn't able to achieve the tone he wanted (for whatever reason).

Chris

Sir Jamsalot wrote:In my limited experience, but many talks with engineers worth their salt, they tend to record two channels concurrently - one DI with no effects or guitar tone whatsoever, and the other mic'd.

The DI dry (no effects) is so that later in the mixing process, they can add effects (guitar tone, re-verb, etc) after the fact, which gives them great flexibility in tweaking the sound they want after the fact, and with the click of a mouse.

Chris

Yep, no need to print effects to the DI guitar track until mixdown. Just record it naked.

life is a compromise,
the benefit of digital or amp-modelers if you like,
is a lot less noise and more headroom.
they don't sound 1/2 as good but are very convenient.
90% of your audience doesn't know the difference any way.

live amps sound so much better but you have to know what your doing to get that sound on tape.
quality recording equipment, Hum and all the gain noise, all those headroom eating problems have to be dealt with, or you don't get what hear in the room, on the box.

whats it worth?

that's the question.

Ive done it both ways, the preamp route is much faster just plug in and go, whereas micing an amp takes some time and patience.

Im of the school that if you get the sound you want it doesnt matter which route you take.

I spent a lot of time with my preamp and got some sounds programed in it that work and sound great to my ears, but then I prefer an amp and pedals.

Ive listened back to things Ive done and quite honestly, sometimes I cant remember which route I went, just as long as I get the tone in my head to "tape".

Mic'd amp or a quality direct out from an amp would be my preference.

No, I probably could not tell the which is which if someone gave a side by side, but I just have an instinct for the real thing.

It's like yes I could play hunting video games, but I like to get my boots dirty.