General Music Chat

No not pay a venue to play. Would you pay someone to play in your band? For example, $50 to rehearse and $100 to do a gig? Keyboardists are probably the most in-demand musician out there. They can transform your band from a garage band to a money-making machine. But most keys guys also know this, and can be very choosy and have expectations. In my example as long as the band made at least $500 a night it would make sense. Thoughts?

No not pay a venue to play. Would you pay someone to play in your band? For example, $50 to rehearse and $100 to do a gig? Keyboardists are probably the most in-demand musician out there. They can transform your band from a garage band to a money-making machine. But most keys guys also know this, and can be very choosy and have expectations. In my example as long as the band made at least $500 a night it would make sense. Thoughts?

Hard to say- I backed a female singer/songwriter for a long time. Many gigs were unpaid / promo / showcasing gigs, or even release parties. We reached an agreement for min pay per gig, but rehearsals were not paid. I did it because I saw a value in both gaining experience in a side of music I had never been in before, on top of the possibility of "making it" via her coat-tails.

Would I pay a KB player to rehearse? No. If they were THAT good, we wouldn't need to rehearse, except maybe once or twice to get the groove down, (and I guess I would pay that)- but then I'd only be responsible for pay-per-gig, which I would do- but once that per-gig rate is set, let's say $100 per gig- so even if the gig only pays $200, then the rest of us split $25 per man.. that's fine, but if the gig pays $1000, that KB player better not get bent out of shape that he still only makes $100...

Great singers are even more difficult to come by- would you consider paying them to rehearse and per gig if they pulled that?

The problem I see is that each person has a certain level of importance to the band, but at the same time, a great player in any position can either improve the band- or hurt it. So we're all working as a team. When one team member thinks they are worth more, then it just turns into more of a struggle than fun, and ultimately ruins the band IMO.

Just look at pro sports and players like Terrell Owens .. "$49 Mil isn't enough to raise my family"...

The sports analogy is excellent. Every team has a superstar player that makes much more than everyone else. Why? Because they can. It's capitalism at its finest; the price is set by the market. There are millions of guitar players, most of them are terrible, but you can usually find one. Keys guys are different (and vocalists too but not to the same degree). I'm thinking it's worth it to get great players in the band even if you have to pay them a flat rate; and like you said, if the band starts making really good money, the hired gun still gets his flat rate.

Keyboardists are probably the most in-demand musician out there. They can transform your band from a garage band to a money-making machine. But most keys guys also know this, and can be very choosy and have expectations.

Really?
I've never noticed that.
It never made a difference in our bottom-line.

Drummers are always in demand.
Bassists, almost as much.
Singers & guitarists are like roaches.
They're EVERYWHERE.

I guess a keyboardist is important for certain styles of music.
But, for most rock bands, I always thought the difference was negligible.

Talking more about cover bands here Mike. Original bands can have a kazoo player for all the difference it makes. I've been in a lot of both kinds of bands, and cover bands who have a keys guy make a lot more than bands who don't, trust me.

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Talking more about cover bands here Mike. Original bands can have a kazoo player for all the difference it makes. I've been in a lot of both kinds of bands, and cover bands who have a keys guy make a lot more than bands who don't, trust me.

If I thought I could convince Marsha to do any covers again, I probably wouldn't mind making a little extra money like that.
She's more into that Top 40 crap anyway.

We could call our cover band The Sellouts, since we'd only do it for the money and it has no artistic value whatsoever.

No matter how hard you try to sound like a particular artist you will always sound like "you" doing it, and there's lots of room for improvisation and experimentation. To say that it's a sellout or there's no art in doing covers is just not accurate. Sure most cover bands do suck, but they would suck just as much doing original music so if they can make it work, more power to them. I'm not worried about what other people say or do, I'm focused on what I do.

I've always had this theory that covers are not "selling out". and even that bands whose members never did covers generally suck more because of it.

Think about it- doing covers, I've had to learn how to imitate EVH's way of stretching a string to hit a note a certain way. I've had to learn how to do the same for SRV, clapton, Gilmour, Page- they say the tone is in the fingers, and they are right!

Why is that important if I'm creating original music? It's easy. Instead of only knowing one or two ways to stretch that note (my way), I know dozens, if not hundreds of ways not to just stretch a string, but how to chop at the strum patterns, how to accentuate a note to achieve the desired result.. and in the end, it transcribes in how to actually play what I'm imagining in my head, vs what most original artists do, which is hear something in their head that ends up translating to something entirely different on the recordings.. which in itself isn't bad, but when every song written is like that, you will find that every song has the exact same style, to the point that it's 8 songs of boredom and nothing new from one song to the next.

The box of tricks is small and limited only to what the artist taught themselves.

I think it's no coincidence that most bands in the mid 80's and earlier started out as cover bands, cut their teeth, learned to improvise and remake stuff, and then went on to write great originals; as opposed to today where most bands have this 'anti-sellout' mentality, learn very few covers, and end up with very limited artistic flexibility.. which is why a lot of music since the late 80's has sucked. Grunge wasn't awful as a style itself, but it fostered a lot of awful attitudes and ethics.

Again excellent points. I like most people learned to play by learning other people's music. In particular, I studied Hendrix, Iommi, Blackmore, Winter, Santana, Trower, Gilmour, etc. because I had to know how they made THAT sound. When I started to write my own stuff I had a bigger bag of tricks to use.

When we stand on the backs of giants, we can see further.

Personally I would NEVER pay someone to rehearse. After all they are going to get paid when we play (an equal cut). Having said that I don't expect them to rehearse more than 3 or 4 times. If they are not willing to invest their time in the project they can join another band. Keyboards ad a different dynamic to the sound of a band. It doesn't make the band better just different. Sure they open up the possibility of playing cover songs you can't play with a guitar band but you have to ask yourself is it worth it to add another person and their baggage and deal with having to pay them more and treat them with preference. Our band Mission Imposter play songs with keys and there are ways around hiring another person. We use some samples. For instance Too Much Time On My Hands (Styx) Our drummer sampled that keyboard intro and I play the power chords in the intro but come in on guitar as the guitar is doubling that part anyway. Lots of bands are using samples. Jimmy you are capable of doing that as it involves someone technical enough with computers. If I were you I would be a little selective in your song selection and try it. Besides who needs another member that acts and treats the other guys like a lead singer would treat you.

We sound great as a four piece but with keys we sounded fantastic. He was doing sax parts on "Born To Run" and a "guitar" part on songs that didn't have keys. It just made the music fuller and richer. We could do it without keys but I know we could make a lot more with them. I'll go along with what the rest of the band wants to do but if we have to pay him for a few rehearsals I'm willing.

No not pay a venue to play. Would you pay someone to play in your band? For example, $50 to rehearse and $100 to do a gig? Keyboardists are probably the most in-demand musician out there. They can transform your band from a garage band to a money-making machine. But most keys guys also know this, and can be very choosy and have expectations. In my example as long as the band made at least $500 a night it would make sense. Thoughts?

I always pay musicians more than they ask for because I want them to be happy to see my number calling their telephone. Real professionals don't need much rehearsal, and their time is worth paying for if that's what it takes.

Yes, it is always good to have "that guy" in the band no matter what it costs, if "that guy" allows you to make enough money to pay him AND yourself better eventually.

No not pay a venue to play. Would you pay someone to play in your band? For example, $50 to rehearse and $100 to do a gig? Keyboardists are probably the most in-demand musician out there. They can transform your band from a garage band to a money-making machine. But most keys guys also know this, and can be very choosy and have expectations. In my example as long as the band made at least $500 a night it would make sense. Thoughts?

Yes.
I slip 2 of our players gas money .....
and we have def hired Keys guy for gigs.
They get the same cut we get.