Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Greetings My Fellow Musicians. Magicians are are sometimes caught for slight of hand. Monster movies do, from time to time, reveal the zipper in the costume. All stories are written...and re written...since the Greek Theater days... But the ingeniousness of good song-writing lies in its origin, timing and evolution( and the ability to suspend the listener's disbelief). On occasion though, we spot the answer. (Hint Everything has an origin and a shelf life...The trick to lasting song life is to obtain essence and execute by principle, not by trend. On the other hand... we need the 20 cent Mardis Gras beads, just the same. Our First Lesson begins Here:

Lesson 1) "Cant Find My Way Home"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT-SFgkVlno
This 60's classic Is time tested and holds up. It is thought to be archetype, or as Plato would say: Master Form of Winwood. Study this song carefully and note the obvious progression and pattern. (BTW, Dereck Trucks is in here. I had the privilege to see him in Seattle, and Clapton in EP and Houston)

Lesson 2) "Mary Jane's Last Dance"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aowSGxim_O8
This number is a song of compassion (twisted, but innocent enough)
Note the Intro carefully.


Lesson 3) "Bungle in The Jungle"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw0YKg07Zz0
This to illustrate vocal texture and 'sympathetic' gesture of theme (Nevermind the story line, pay attention to the majestic attitude in the song. (Also, Think Aqualung)

Finally, Someone here once asked what constitutes an anthem?

Lesson 4) "Little Black Submarines"
Lesson 1 + Lesson 2 + Lesson 3 + Anthem =
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490s689kvpo

Listen to the whole song here.
ThenGo back to lesson 1 and listen...Essence, Origin , Master Form

This concludes A LESSON IN SONG ORIGIN- IDEA: EVOLUTION AND EMULATION.

No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience.
John Locke

Or perhaps this could be a fancy way of getting us to listen to some of your favorite songs.

Th Black Keys song is not in the same county as the other 3, let alone the same ballpark. 'Anthem'?? for what? the changeover to electric in the song comes way too late to make sense, the lyrics are mostly incomprehensible.

re. "Can't Find My Way Home"...i've always dug that tune and it's a sure fire time machine bringing me back to when i used to play it w a H.S. girlfriend.

i hadn't seen that version before and it sure is nice to hear E.C. playing w a CLEAN somewhat "clucky"strat tone (i'm not a big fan of his overdriven strat tone he's adopted the last 10 or 15 yrs). i do wish he'd have let S.W. ( a fine underated gtrst) solo a little longer before jumping in and doing the "call and response" thing.

not too long ago i saw this Procul Harem youtube and was blown away by the similarities in Steve Winwood and Gary Brooker's voices and singing styles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6BzNEZx ... re=related

those opening chords from the piano....wow. way to set things up.

thanks for putting up a "music" thread, grant....a nice if temporary reprieve from all the snarkiness (and i'm guilty as anyone) so prevalent around here as of late.

fisherman bob wrote:Or perhaps this could be a fancy way of getting us to listen to some of your favorite songs.

I could have spared the fancy and easily just posted a list of my favorite songs. But that was not my point or intention here.

Planetguy wrote:re. "Can't Find My Way Home"...i've always dug that tune and it's a sure fire time machine bringing me back to when i used to play it w a H.S. girlfriend.

i hadn't seen that version before and it sure is nice to hear E.C. playing w a CLEAN somewhat "clucky"strat tone (i'm not a big fan of his overdriven strat tone he's adopted the last 10 or 15 yrs). i do wish he'd have let S.W. ( a fine underated gtrst) solo a little longer before jumping in and doing the "call and response" thing.

not too long ago i saw this Procul Harem youtube and was blown away by the similarities in Steve Winwood and Gary Brooker's voices and singing styles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6BzNEZx ... re=related

those opening chords from the piano....wow. way to set things up.

thanks for putting up a "music" thread, grant....a nice if temporary reprieve from all the snarkiness (and i'm guilty as anyone) so prevalent around here as of late.

Thanks Mark... "Cant find my way Home" is an all time great. I just wanted to point out the derivatives that emanated from that song and how 40 years later, as it it re-emerges in another form.

GuitarMikeB wrote:Th Black Keys song is not in the same county as the other 3, let alone the same ballpark. 'Anthem'?? for what? the changeover to electric in the song comes way too late to make sense, the lyrics are mostly incomprehensible.

OY VEY Mike! You hear and Play Beatles but you dont "Listen"

Rule #1 In songwriting Plagerism)
If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck...It IS a duck.
Do you not hear and discern common gesture between the first and the last song? Did you completely miss the nick off of the Mary Jane song (You mentioned the Electric Guitar break)? and finally do you not detect the element of Ian Anderson influence in the vocal gesture? (Aqualung link was not included)

As for the Anthem, Seriously? The whole last half of the Black Keys was Anthem

Maybe we just dont share the same definition

I like tunes with floating key centers.. chortle .. chortle.. just practicing my snarkiness...

John Barleycorn Must Die
http://youtu.be/7bcYeP8Kk8k

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I like tunes with floating key centers.. chortle .. chortle.. just practicing my snarkiness...

Whats a floating Key Center?

PaperDog wrote:

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I like tunes with floating key centers.. chortle .. chortle.. just practicing my snarkiness...

Whats a floating Key Center?

A floating key center is a key center that does not sink.

a diminished seventh chord can occupy 4 key-cnters at once, and this is what I consider to be a floating key center..
an example:
using C
root position C diminished C / E flat /G flat / B double flat /
1st inversion E flat diminished E flat / G flat / B double flat (A) / C
2nd inversion G flat diminished G flat / B double flat (A) / C / E flat
3rd inversion A diminished B double flat (A) / C / E flat / G flat

NOTE: when viewed enharmonically all 4 chords are, in fact part of the original same chord. this means that because it can be any one of 4 different chords it occupies 4 different tonalities, this means that it is interchangeable between 4 separate keys, and that represents a unique "gateway" between these keys..

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:a diminished seventh chord can occupy 4 key-cnters at once, and this is what I consider to be a floating key center..
an example:
using C
root position C diminished C / E flat /G flat / B double flat /
1st inversion E flat diminished E flat / G flat / B double flat (A) / C
2nd inversion G flat diminished G flat / B double flat (A) / C / E flat
3rd inversion A diminished B double flat (A) / C / E flat / G flat

NOTE: when viewed enharmonically all 4 chords are, in fact part of the original same chord. this means that because it can be any one of 4 different chords it occupies 4 different tonalities, this means that it is interchangeable between 4 separate keys, and that represents a unique "gateway" between these keys..

Ok I think I Get it.. Its like Pivoting the finger play off the same root chord to accent musical progressions , etc..

VinnyViolin wrote:

PaperDog wrote:

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:I like tunes with floating key centers.. chortle .. chortle.. just practicing my snarkiness...

Whats a floating Key Center?

A floating key center is a key center that does not sink.

Good One Vinny! I originally thought it was a place in the sky, where we take our keys for maintenance and what not...