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Some of you may be familiar with the Free Form Funky Freqs.

In searching for other free form artists playing fusion (not the Ornate Coleman variety of jazz) I haven't really come across anything. Does anybody know of any other free form fusion groups out there?

I'm doing research.

Drumsinhisheart wrote:Some of you may be familiar with the Free Form Funky Freqs.

In searching for other free form artists playing fusion (not the Ornate Coleman variety of jazz) I haven't really come across anything. Does anybody know of any other free form fusion groups out there?

I'm doing research.

are there people that consider Ornette Coleman...."fusion"???

not sure about the genre of "free form fusion". most fusion stuff i'm familiar w is not really what i think of as "free form".....free form as in improvising the form like jam bands do?

fusion i'm hip to has plenty of improvising on a set form of changes/melody/etc yes.....but "free form"? drums..is that your term or is that actually a new genre?

when i think of of "fusion" i think of 70's groups like Mahivishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever, Weather Report, Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, Larry Coryell's Eleventh House, etc. and of course Miles' seminal fusion albums "Bitches Brew" and "Jack Johnson"

off the top of my head....some modern ones might be Garaj Majal, Jimmy Herring Band, Aquarium Rescue Unit, Jazz Is Dead (or anything else Billy Cobham is involved w), Mike Stern Band, John Scofield, T Lavitz, David Becker Tribune, Steps Ahead....

I was thinking the same thing. Mahavishnu Orchestra was the standard for fusion in my book. All of the material they did was written, yet it allowed for improvisation when played live. For music to be truly free form, the musicians should have no previous knowledge of what they are about to perform, not even a key signature or time. One player might start playing, then another join, etc. I have done this before and sometimes the results are mind blowing, other times just noise. Depends on the players.

Sorry for the confusion. I am interested in Free form groups playing a "fusion" genre of music, such as stated by suggested groups in your posts. They all jam within song structures, though. In the case of the MO, very structured pieces. Same with RTF. JLP. Weather Report (though they could go a long time before returning to a head), and other bands of that era. garaj Mahal, same thing, though they can carry on for a long time, too.

I do not consider Coleman to be fusion. But he is considered free form jazz by many. I am looking for groups like Free form funky freqs which just play music as it comes out of them, composition on the fly as it were, in a genre style of jazz/rock.

Miles Davids, Bitches Brew, Pharoah's Dance vibe sort of started that gig.

Drumsinhisheart wrote:Some of you may be familiar with the Free Form Funky Freqs.

In searching for other free form artists playing fusion (not the Ornate Coleman variety of jazz) I haven't really come across anything. Does anybody know of any other free form fusion groups out there?

I'm doing research.

I think that 'free form' poses such a high challenge to musicianship, that it is only rarely considered sustainable.

Often times it seems like the "heads" of songs get replaced by a random mix of habitual riffs and licks juxtaposing with other players habitual licks and riffs ... after a while the seemingly unique juxtapositions even get repeated ... the 'free form' often coagulates into a sort of messy form in spite of itself due to the players limitations.

The older school of this music was coming from jazz wanting to incorporate more influences from African and Asian musical forms and sounds, some with the intention of specifically getting away from the "Tin Pan Alley" part of jazz's heritage.

Nowdays, 'Ableton Live' is having a big influence on how some younger people interpret the way music is conceived.

Larry Young http://youtu.be/8wYq2kMKN6s

Don Cherry http://youtu.be/KuRMtbiSZps

Interesting, though not my cup of tea. Is that the Larry Young of Tony William's Lifetime?

For the last year I've been recording what would be considered a type of free form fusion, with elements of other genres in it. It's been a tremendous experience for me. Hopefully the first CD will be out by the New Year. We've got sessions for five or six so far.

It certainly is a challenge to play this stuff - start and stop 90 minutes later, or more, but I have found it exhilarating. It isn't what some might consider "free form" if total freedom of form is meant. I play with a lot of form which glues things together, I suppose, regardless of changes made on the fly. It's quite a ride.

After playing this for a year now, listening to 4,5,6,7,or 8 minute pieces, basically platforms for soloists, seems kind of "been there, done that," to me. This path is really challenging, but very freeing as well. I feel like I am really making music in a true sense, warts and all. Hard to explain.

Anyway, finding the Free Form Funky Freqs I figured there must be more of this type of thing going on. We don't sound like them. But the concept is the somewhat the same.

Drumsinhisheart wrote:Interesting, though not my cup of tea. Is that the Larry Young of Tony William's Lifetime?

For the last year I've been recording what would be considered a type of free form fusion, with elements of other genres in it. It's been a tremendous experience for me. Hopefully the first CD will be out by the New Year. We've got sessions for five or six so far.

It certainly is a challenge to play this stuff - start and stop 90 minutes later, or more, but I have found it exhilarating. It isn't what some might consider "free form" if total freedom of form is meant. I play with a lot of form which glues things together, I suppose, regardless of changes made on the fly. It's quite a ride.

After playing this for a year now, listening to 4,5,6,7,or 8 minute pieces, basically platforms for soloists, seems kind of "been there, done that," to me. This path is really challenging, but very freeing as well. I feel like I am really making music in a true sense, warts and all. Hard to explain.

Anyway, finding the Free Form Funky Freqs I figured there must be more of this type of thing going on. We don't sound like them. But the concept is the somewhat the same.

I've played in variations of free form bands for decades. Some were free association of notes and fragments ... others were more free association of larger phrases and patterns.
No song or plan .. someone just starts playing .. others listen to that and contribute, just like a conversation. The subject may change or get repeated, the form is created on the fly by the free interaction between musicians. The quality of the conversation is entirely dependent on the depth and wit of the participants.

Been there, done that .. and still do.

Yes, it is very exhilarating!

Drumsinhisheart wrote:Interesting, though not my cup of tea. Is that the Larry Young of Tony William's Lifetime?

For the last year I've been recording what would be considered a type of free form fusion, with elements of other genres in it. It's been a tremendous experience for me. Hopefully the first CD will be out by the New Year. We've got sessions for five or six so far.

It certainly is a challenge to play this stuff - start and stop 90 minutes later, or more, but I have found it exhilarating. It isn't what some might consider "free form" if total freedom of form is meant. I play with a lot of form which glues things together, I suppose, regardless of changes made on the fly. It's quite a ride.

After playing this for a year now, listening to 4,5,6,7,or 8 minute pieces, basically platforms for soloists, seems kind of "been there, done that," to me. This path is really challenging, but very freeing as well. I feel like I am really making music in a true sense, warts and all. Hard to explain.

Anyway, finding the Free Form Funky Freqs I figured there must be more of this type of thing going on. We don't sound like them. But the concept is the somewhat the same.

Yes same Larry from the "Lifetime"

The Grateful Dead often "free-formed" from one song into another during their live shows. Musicians often jam "informally". It tends to be a hard sell for many .. most people like to hear songs. If the musicianship is stellar awesome, then other musicians will enjoy it, but the average person will get bored unless they took some LSD.

I personally prefer the freer flowing musics.

Best wishes for your CD release !

Here's a good interview with Mtume about Mile's music. At 10:15 he gets more specific. http://youtu.be/jAtaxon9t5g

thanks! vinnyviolin..!!

Planetguy wrote:

Drumsinhisheart wrote:Some of you may be familiar with the Free Form Funky Freqs.

In searching for other free form artists playing fusion (not the Ornate Coleman variety of jazz) I haven't really come across anything. Does anybody know of any other free form fusion groups out there?

I'm doing research.

are there people that consider Ornette Coleman...."fusion"???

not sure about the genre of "free form fusion". most fusion stuff i'm familiar w is not really what i think of as "free form".....free form as in improvising the form like jam bands do?

fusion i'm hip to has plenty of improvising on a set form of changes/melody/etc yes.....but "free form"? drums..is that your term or is that actually a new genre?

when i think of of "fusion" i think of 70's groups like Mahivishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever, Weather Report, Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, Larry Coryell's Eleventh House, etc. and of course Miles' seminal fusion albums "Bitches Brew" and "Jack Johnson"

off the top of my head....some modern ones might be Garaj Mnsajal, Jimmy Herring Band, Aquarium Rescue Unit, Jazz Is Dead (or anything else Billy Cobham is involved w), Mike Stern Band, John Scofield, T Lavitz, David Becker Tribune, Steps Ahead....

I Am Not much on Free form per se... I prolly got this attitude of mine from watching too much TV, where just when It became comfortably predictable, they changed the rules.... Same for IT...Tech changes just when we finally figure out the older stuff... None of this is relevant to the Free-form fusion question, but it should give some insight about music consumer frustration... If I want to clear my head , I'll go to a jazz club, becuse I know they provide enough distraction musically, that it becomes futile to obsess on any one thought. Its actually quite cathartic. As a song writer, I admit I m more rigid about musical phrasing than any Jazz would ever tolerate.

can't say I take to the rush rip off..
but I love the drum set!~~~~
man that's a lot of brass!!!

Planetguy wrote:
are there people that consider Ornette Coleman...."fusion"???

Well, he is actually, or can be if he wants too .. a fusion of free jazz with funk and "world" music.
I first heard the Master Musicians of Joujouka when Ornette's "Dancing In Your Head" album came out in the mid 70's.
http://youtu.be/ao9Y_uZLcx0
http://youtu.be/72SVN9sO4P4

VinnyViolin wrote:

Planetguy wrote:
are there people that consider Ornette Coleman...."fusion"???

Well, he is actually, or can be if he wants too .. a fusion of free jazz with funk and "world" music.
I first heard the Master Musicians of Joujouka when Ornette's "Dancing In Your Head" album came out in the mid 70's.
http://youtu.be/ao9Y_uZLcx0
http://youtu.be/72SVN9sO4P4

and people say I'm random!
man the 1st one was awful

JCP61 wrote:

VinnyViolin wrote:

Planetguy wrote:
are there people that consider Ornette Coleman...."fusion"???

Well, he is actually, or can be if he wants too .. a fusion of free jazz with funk and "world" music.
I first heard the Master Musicians of Joujouka when Ornette's "Dancing In Your Head" album came out in the mid 70's.
http://youtu.be/ao9Y_uZLcx0
http://youtu.be/72SVN9sO4P4

and people say I'm random!
man the 1st one was awful

I liked Ornette's other stuff on the album, but I wasn't too keen on his mix with the Master Musicians of Joujouka ... so that led me to find a couple other recordings of them without Ornette .. including Brian Jones' album http://youtu.be/HcgWsYsrVdQ

OMG my sides are hurting
stop!