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has anybody ever listened to "Heavy Horses"? Jethro Tull lyrics (written by Ian's wife) speak about when horses will be back in style one day when the oil runs out... will it ever come to when the oil barons run dry we will revert back to horses to get the farming done? the "experts" are all over the map as to how many years of oil reserves are left in the ground, but they all pretty much agree one day the oil will run out and all of us will be deceased when that happens, but will they ever develop a tractor engine to pull implements large enough to get the acreage tilled in a set amount of time required to get the seed in the ground? yeah, there will be micro city cars running on electric or compressed air, but will they ever produce a non- gas/diesel engine with enough hp and torque to pull huge chisel plows and such?

I have the LP, probably haven't listened to it in decades. The oil will run out someday, probably later in this century. Sure we'll all be gone but our kids or their kids may have to deal with it.

I doubt that we'll ever have to go back to horses.

There are a lot of advances in tech just around the corner, (electricial storage, material science, bio oils) that will help replace the need for oil and I think it will be long before oil runs out. It won't be a silver bullet (like oil) but will be a combination of technologies that will get us there.

Nuclear power..Its the only way we can advance technology to use Gamma ray carrier frequency communication.

Prevost82 wrote:I doubt that we'll ever have to go back to horses.

There are a lot of advances in tech just around the corner, (electricial storage, material science, bio oils) that will help replace the need for oil and I think it will be long before oil runs out. It won't be a silver bullet (like oil) but will be a combination of technologies that will get us there.

what you think of compressed air technology.. where you fill up on air instead of petrol?

Dane Ellis Allen wrote:

Prevost82 wrote:I doubt that we'll ever have to go back to horses.

There are a lot of advances in tech just around the corner, (electricial storage, material science, bio oils) that will help replace the need for oil and I think it will be long before oil runs out. It won't be a silver bullet (like oil) but will be a combination of technologies that will get us there.

what you think of compressed air technology.. where you fill up on air instead of petrol?

if you look at the specs from a mechanical point of view you will immediately see how impractical it really is.
or eventually see, depending on your understanding of physics.

it would probably be more cost effective to envision a closed circuit track where you were launched out of your garage by a spring loaded catapult, and shunted to your destination through the use of doors and traps.

this of course sounds silly,
so dose the possibility of anyone having access to air pressurized to 4500 psi
as if anyone here has the remotest idea of the dangers of trying to handle fluids under that kind of pressure,
not to mention the expense and reliability of a vessel or conduit capable of containing these pressures.
the smallest leak would cut your arm off before you even had a chance to see the gauge drop.

what a joke!
you can't even pay to get your tires properly filled conveniently.

JCP61,
I think Tata Motors NANO model was a car that will be operating on comressed air .. I think they scrapped that technology back in 2007 but have revived it and that compressed air model will appear later this year on the market..like you, I feel like it would be like a live time bomb and dangerous, but then again hydrogen fuel cars are dangerous too cause of the volatile nature of the hydrogen fuel.. I am still not convinced as to what will replace the engines that drive farm tractors when we eventually run out of fossil fuels..might be 50 years might be 200 years?.. but modern farming is all about a small percentage of world's population acting as the tillers of the soil, feeding the whole world's population, unlike we have seen before where most of the U.S. population were farmers tending their 40 acres with horses, eating what you produce..selling the excess... nowadays it is scary with so many billions of people depending on a real small amount of food producers..

well you 1st have to buy into the concept that oil will not be available if needed, I do not.
other than politics of scarcity there is no evidence that oil will not be available if needed.

2nd. there is no substance that is better for the motivation of people and goods than hydrocarbons.
using less efficient fuels, just moves the cost and damage to a location you cannot readily observe.
similar to dumping your trash in the ocean. out of sight out of mind.

cars/trucks were 1st promoted as a way to clean up city streets, horses sh*t everywhere and caused immediate and deadly health issues.


everything need to run a complex society is taken for granted, the least of these is fuel.

the abuse of the credit markets to support an ever increasing surplus population is much more likely to bring society to a halt than oil depletion.

Im waiting on my Jetson Mobile!

JCP61 wrote:well you 1st have to buy into the concept that oil will not be available if needed, I do not.
other than politics of scarcity there is no evidence that oil will not be available if needed.

2nd. there is no substance that is better for the motivation of people and goods than hydrocarbons.
using less efficient fuels, just moves the cost and damage to a location you cannot readily observe.
similar to dumping your trash in the ocean. out of sight out of mind.

cars/trucks were 1st promoted as a way to clean up city streets, horses sh*t everywhere and caused immediate and deadly health issues.


everything need to run a complex society is taken for granted, the least of these is fuel.

the abuse of the credit markets to support an ever increasing surplus population is much more likely to bring society to a halt than oil depletion.

I'd say that food and water will be more of a challenge in the world than oil. It's oil and the use of it, to industrialized food production that has increased the population or over population world ... don't get the abuse of credit markets thing ...

Prevost82 wrote:

JCP61 wrote:well you 1st have to buy into the concept that oil will not be available if needed, I do not.
other than politics of scarcity there is no evidence that oil will not be available if needed.

2nd. there is no substance that is better for the motivation of people and goods than hydrocarbons.
using less efficient fuels, just moves the cost and damage to a location you cannot readily observe.
similar to dumping your trash in the ocean. out of sight out of mind.

cars/trucks were 1st promoted as a way to clean up city streets, horses sh*t everywhere and caused immediate and deadly health issues.


everything need to run a complex society is taken for granted, the least of these is fuel.

the abuse of the credit markets to support an ever increasing surplus population is much more likely to bring society to a halt than oil depletion.

I'd say that food and water will be more of a challenge in the world than oil. It's oil and the use of it, to industrialized food production that has increased the population or over population world ... don't get the abuse of credit markets thing ...

you can stockpile all the grain or you want, without the market or credit if you like, that stuff will rot before anyone gets it.
credit is the foundation of civilization.
barter is the indicator of it's collapse.
barter leads to famine
barter undermines the need for goverment, barter feeds only thieves and brigands.
when barter is the rule then then society, is at the mercy of mounted gangs.

the basis for western goverment is the contract,
the agreement between men to transact a thing.
goverment is the institution that protects and enforces the contract.
command economies and barter economies destroy this rule an establish the rule of tyranny.
we call this tyranny; dictatorship, communism or monarchy (whatever happens to be the fashion at the time.)


the basis for goverment is not national or social security, as this quickly brings on a war economy, also a dictatorship.
modern liberal goverment is based on the feeling that the emergency of life and social order necessitates a command economy and human rights cannot survive a command economy.


the basis for western goverment is not religion as is often cited by conservatives.
religion is divisive,
the foundation of freedom of religion is the government's recognizance of the fact that goverment cannot enforce the social contract between God and man, so then must therefore remain aloof.
as western goverment took shape. the only contract that between God and man that facilitated the formation of modern goverment was Christianity, due to the fact that for the 1st time, God revealed that the Your relationship with him was strictly a private affair, no longer a public one.
Because of course, the rite that was performed on Calvary atoned for your sins alone, making you personally responsible
for your interaction with God.
Government was no longer being required to maintain the doorway.
as was often done in the past.

today conservative goverment still grieves the loss of control the chrurch provided.
and liberal goverment celebrate what they mistakenly took as the death of God.

both point of views are equally short sighted.
One is of course very anal, and the latter is somewhat demented due the fact that the individual who separated church and state did not commit suicide because he lacked a ready supply of antidepressants.

Stock pile grain ... really .. with 7 Billion people and it doubling that by around 2075 ... one hiccup, like the drout in the US this year, and the stock piles are gone and having credit do nothing if you can't afford it

let me rephrase,
if distributors are forced into COD for supplies, then there will be wild price fluctuations in the beginning, followed by glut and depletion leading to famine and waste.
markets and credit all but eliminate this.

this is also why drought has a limited effect on food supply,
drought almost was always followed by mass starvation before credit markets began to function again.