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best line (and kinda ironic if you think about) is at around 3:45

"nat'l security should not be a political game. and these jokers make it just that"

so which "jokers" is he referring to? obama? the "jokers" in favor of gun control?

"jokers" who don't think anyone needs a stockpile of automatic weapons and has a "god given right" to them?


...or the nra "jokers" who are making a "political game" out of it?

...Haley...Thank you for Posting this ... you are absolutely correct in that everyone should see these even if they may not agree. This is very important at this moment in time.

Three Quarters of the guns are indeed coming directly from the Military. Operation Fast and Furious confirms the insanity of it all. The "leadership" in the US is comprised of buffoon like criminals ... "Janet" is one of the major clowns. It is disgusting and makes a laughing stock of the "Democrats" that the Black Messiah has been selected once again to torture, rape, loot and sell out the US. The dumbing down of Amerika has succeeded very well.

Most "folks" in Mexico know exactly what is going on and are disgusted by Calderon's so-called speech which is nothing more than the same that Obama gives in worship to his Masters. Those who actually live on the Border and ithe Border States know what is going on for the most part and in Mexico feel ultimately helpless since they seem to have made it a part of their "culture" to get victimized by almost every foriegn power they come into contact with.

This is why I believe firmly that the only hope in any case for the US and the World is Texas. People make fun of Texans all the time. I lived in Dallas and did my business and contracts with only a handshake and was never ever screwed over by a Texan. When I moved to SanFrancisco I felt I had entered a bowl of jello populated by liars, drug addicts and great pretenders who claimed to be artists of some sort but were in fact vultures waiting for their parents to die, the "settlement" of some ridiculous lawsuit or the "opportunity to initiate one. The "males" were mostly bigger whores than the women and it was there that I learned to never ever trust a "hippie".

I will take a Texan over a Californian any day of the week.

TA_______

The NRA might as well be renamed as "Gun lobbyist community of America", cause that's what it is. To think they care more about your rights as a citizen more than they care about selling you a product is naive. They are among the biggest propagandists in the country, and are equally as guilty of lies and misinformation as our most corrupt officials.

I've owned guns, for what it's worth, and while I wouldn't call myself pro or anti, I'd say I can see both sides of the fence, and the NRA isn't anyone's friend, unless you own a national gun manufacturing plant.

Vampier wrote:...Haley...Thank you for Posting this ... you are absolutely correct in that everyone should see these even if they may not agree. This is very important at this moment in time.

Three Quarters of the guns are indeed coming directly from the Military. Operation Fast and Furious confirms the insanity of it all. The "leadership" in the US is comprised of buffoon like criminals ... "Janet" is one of the major clowns. It is disgusting and makes a laughing stock of the "Democrats" that the Black Messiah has been selected once again to torture, rape, loot and sell out the US. The dumbing down of Amerika has succeeded very well.

Most "folks" in Mexico know exactly what is going on and are disgusted by Calderon's so-called speech which is nothing more than the same that Obama gives in worship to his Masters. Those who actually live on the Border and ithe Border States know what is going on for the most part and in Mexico feel ultimately helpless since they seem to have made it a part of their "culture" to get victimized by almost every foriegn power they come into contact with.

This is why I believe firmly that the only hope in any case for the US and the World is Texas. People make fun of Texans all the time. I lived in Dallas and did my business and contracts with only a handshake and was never ever screwed over by a Texan. When I moved to SanFrancisco I felt I had entered a bowl of jello populated by liars, drug addicts and great pretenders who claimed to be artists of some sort but were in fact vultures waiting for their parents to die, the "settlement" of some ridiculous lawsuit or the "opportunity to initiate one. The "males" were mostly bigger whores than the women and it was there that I learned to never ever trust a "hippie".

I will take a Texan over a Californian any day of the week.

TA_______

Thank you sir! I enjoy and find your threads very informative.

I believe that drug cartel member that said we get most of our guns from the military was in fact refering to the Mexican military. Whom I believe gets there weapons from our military!

Kramerguy wrote:The NRA might as well be renamed as "Gun lobbyist community of America", cause that's what it is. To think they care more about your rights as a citizen more than they care about selling you a product is naive. They are among the biggest propagandists in the country, and are equally as guilty of lies and misinformation as our most corrupt officials.

I've owned guns, for what it's worth, and while I wouldn't call myself pro or anti, I'd say I can see both sides of the fence, and the NRA isn't anyone's friend, unless you own a national gun manufacturing plant.

Kramer, that video is the TRUTH! Believe it or not that is your choice. It's a free country at least for now!

I thought I would go back and watch the video and see what they had to say, and try to get past my knee-jerk reaction to the NRA. Some of the things in that video are absolutely propagandist, actually, many things are. I was going to take the time to list them, but it's just too much time..

Short list:
most of the parts about congress and the president was misleading and huge in the area of lies of omission. Most of the quotes from the Obama and the mexican president were taken way out of context, as all of it was specifically attributed to assault rifles. The NRA only brings that up in one mention after all of it, by saying they also want to ban them. Well... duh.. it's a matter of fact that deaths from assault guns went down during the Brady ban and went up dramatically when the ban was lifted.. it's not rocket science.

A gun is a tool, to do a job. Yes, home security is a job. Hunting can be called a job (in this sense), so can a lot of things. There's different kinds of tools to do different kinds of jobs. You would use a high powered hunting rifle to hunt deer, and while a .44 magnum could also be used, it's not the best 'tool'. A high powered rifle is not the best tool for home defense.

Of all those tools, I can't find a good reason for assault rifles to be legal.

I'm SURE there's gonna be a lot of people who disagree. Please just keep it civil and tell me why you disagree and leave the patriotic insults in other threads.

J-HALEY wrote:
Kramer, that video is the TRUTH! Believe it or not that is your choice. It's a free country at least for now!

Hey brutha- I disagree. I see it as propaganda. I implore you to try something- Pretend you are an anti-gun activist for 5 minutes, and watch the video from that perspective, and ask yourself at every point:

Was 'that' put in the video to inform me, or to shock and outrage me? I see almost all of the latter and little of the former in that video (from a centrist point of view). If I were anti-gun, I'd probably have taken a lot more offense at it.

I was once a member of the NRA. I quit when I realized they were corrupted inside and out. The group I 'hung' with were far more interested in gun safety and sanity in the laws, not outright anarchy, which is what the NRA seems to promote at times. I don't believe they are anarchists, but I think it's just a matter of following the money- They are obviously under the influence of the industry, and I really don't think they care if innocent people get gunned down by guns that shouldn't be on the street or manufactured in the first place.

That video almost works as an anti-gun movie if you really look at what it's saying. They were so interested in the propaganda that they lost sight at the obvious flaw that it indisputably connects guns and violence.

Kramerguy wrote:I thought I would go back and watch the video and see what they had to say, and try to get past my knee-jerk reaction to the NRA. Some of the things in that video are absolutely propagandist, actually, many things are. I was going to take the time to list them, but it's just too much time..

Short list:
most of the parts about congress and the president was misleading and huge in the area of lies of omission. Most of the quotes from the Obama and the mexican president were taken way out of context, as all of it was specifically attributed to assault rifles. The NRA only brings that up in one mention after all of it, by saying they also want to ban them. Well... duh.. it's a matter of fact that deaths from assault guns went down during the Brady ban and went up dramatically when the ban was lifted.. it's not rocket science.

A gun is a tool, to do a job. Yes, home security is a job. Hunting can be called a job (in this sense), so can a lot of things. There's different kinds of tools to do different kinds of jobs. You would use a high powered hunting rifle to hunt deer, and while a .44 magnum could also be used, it's not the best 'tool'. A high powered rifle is not the best tool for home defense.

Of all those tools, I can't find a good reason for assault rifles to be legal.

I'm SURE there's gonna be a lot of people who disagree. Please just keep it civil and tell me why you disagree and leave the patriotic insults in other threads.

Kramer, I have always and still do think of you as a very intelligent guy. It amazes me how 2 people (you and I) can watch that video and come to such drastically different opinions. I guess because I am closer to the front lines and cartel violence is a daily occurance in Houston. I just see the reality. I also remember how pissed I was when Mr. Calderon stood in front of our democratic congress and president scolding us about our laws. Then having the Prez and congress give him a standing ovation. It especially made me mad knowing that mexico's pres. is behind it all and a hypocrite of the worst KIND!

Kramerguy wrote:
That video almost works as an anti-gun movie if you really look at what it's saying. They were so interested in the propaganda that they lost sight at the obvious flaw that it indisputably connects guns and violence.

exactly so. and therein lies even more irony.

gun sales in the US is no more indicative of the out outcome of central and south American power struggles than European gun bans affect the illegal diamond trade in Africa.


A local gun ban will not affect export law in any case.

topicality is always suspect,

in either case you won't get any more out of romney than you are getting out of obama.

very hot button, but completely irrelevant, at least in the case of elections

I picked up a 38 Cal when I was but 9... I remember distinctly, the overwhelming feeling of "nothing" inside of me, when i did that. I was aware of the safety precautions, and knew to never point the gun at people, and that I should always treat the gun as though it was loaded.

I had/have no desire to shoot people or animals with it. I don't believe in killing. And I don't credit the gun for that. Like wise, I don't credit the gun for people who do like killing.

Show me any man with a pension to dig a hole in the earth and I'll show you a man who figured out that a shovel would help him get his desire fulfilled.

So, the question remains...What compels that man to want to dig the hole? Is it the shovel? The last time I bough a shovel, I still had no desire to actually dig the hole.

The way I see it, Normal Kids are born with a relatively peaceful and benign disposition about humanity... But some of them, get twisted up along the way. Fix what twisting them up along the way and the gun probelm is solved. Till then, we need the guns.

as my father used to say
"locks only keep honest people honest"

PaperDog wrote:I picked up a 38 Cal when I was but 9... I remember distinctly, the overwhelming feeling of "nothing" inside of me, when i did that. I was aware of the safety precautions, and knew to never point the gun at people, and that I should always treat the gun as though it was loaded.

I had/have no desire to shoot people or animals with it. I don't believe in killing. And I don't credit the gun for that. Like wise, I don't credit the gun for people who do like killing.

Show me any man with a pension to dig a hole in the earth and I'll show you a man who figured out that a shovel would help him get his desire fulfilled.

So, the question remains...What compels that man to want to dig the hole? Is it the shovel? The last time I bough a shovel, I still had no desire to actually dig the hole.

The way I see it, Normal Kids are born with a relatively peaceful and benign disposition about humanity... But some of them, get twisted up along the way. Fix what twisting them up along the way and the gun probelm is solved. Till then, we need the guns.

I think a big part of the issue is that guns make it that much easier, too easy, for twisted people to kill. it's bad enough when someone goes on a rampage with a pistol with 17 in the clip, but when they roll in with several assault rifles, hundreds of rounds of ammo, all semi-auto.. that's when they call it a massacre instead of a shooting.

As far as kids getting twisted.. I think there's a great debate there- I've know kids who were brought up as peaceful and prosperous who were just outright bad kids. They were genetically disposed to being mean, bullies, pulling wings off flies, whatever. You know the type. Sadly, in america, that makes you the perfect candidate for the police academy lol; but my take is some people are just born mean, others grown to be mean.

Ban guns and people will still kill, nobody is doubting it, but imagine someone going into a workplace with a sword or knife and trying to 'massacre' as many people as possible. It's almost comical to imagine. I can use a chair or any heavy object to fend off a guy with a knife.. not so much with a gun.

I can't honestly buy into the argument that armed citizens matter when it comes to the government needing to fear the people. Take 10,000 armed citizens attempting to stand up in revolution. Get them all together, and wait for the unmanned drone strike. Within minutes, you will have 10,000 dead citizens. The time that the well-armed citizenry had any real power ended sometime around 1900. If anything, revolution will come to this country in the very exact form of terrorism that we are fighting abroad. Many innocents will die as a result, and it will be largely unsuccessful IMO, just because our government has been practicing against that very thing in other countries for 30+ years. They know exactly what the score is.