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Just need to add the Three Stooges (Glenny, Jeff and ToiletPaperDog)

Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

fisherman bob wrote:Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

Right Bob!

PARADOX: People now have to prove they have health coverage, but they dont have to prove they are citizens

fisherman bob wrote:Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

Much of what you said it true. However there are much larger issues at stake. One party seeks to enlarge government and take your freedom. The other wants you to at least keep a little of it. Get past the dogma and look at what they stand for. They are either for more control (Expanding government) or more freedom (smaller government). The mudslinging is only a diversion from what the bastards are really up to.

fisherman bob wrote:Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

Well said Bob ...

Slacker G wrote:

fisherman bob wrote:Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

Much of what you said it true. However there are much larger issues at stake. One party seeks to enlarge government and take your freedom. The other wants you to at least keep a little of it. Get past the dogma and look at what they stand for. They are either for more control (Expanding government) or more freedom (smaller government). The mudslinging is only a diversion from what the bastards are really up to.

An enlarged government in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean taking anybody's freedom. It depends on the nature of the particular government you're talking about. If our government gets larger AND more efficient I'm all for it. If it evolves smaller but into a dictatorship then I'm against it. I'm all for higher taxes if what we get for it is more benficial. The problem has never been the size of government but how inefficiently run it has become. Getting better goods and services and taking more of my hard earned money isn"t taking my freedom. Taking more of my money and getting less goods and services IS taking my freedom. We have been heading for the latter because those who are really in power, i.e. the pharma giants, attorneys, utility companies, etc.have us by the balls and are not letting go. There are too many areas in the economy where we have no choice. if we want electric service we have ONE choice. In many cases if we want a drug we have ONE choice. In reality there are no separate gas companies competing with each other for our business. All the gas comes from one source, it's all the same. You're never going to see the "gas wars" they used to have many years ago where gas stations right across the street from each other compete for your business. The policies of our federal government, BOTH big government and SMALL government advocates have created a market where monopolies rule and the little guy in reality has no choice. If I were running for President I would EMBARASS THE SH*T OUT OF EITHER ROMNEY OR OBAMA IN A DEBATE. They would have to wear Depends to the debate...

oh boy, that was special. lol

"An enlarged government in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean taking anybody's freedom."

REALLY?? Do the math. There are twice as many people working in government today then in all of the private sector. The average government worker makes considerable more than the average private sector worker makes. The government worker gets his medical paid for by the private sector. Most government jobs offer early retirement with full benefits. The retirement pay is far above and beyond what the private sector worker gets when he retires. The private sector worker pays FOR ALL OF IT!!! Now just how much bigger can the government get before they have to take ALL OF YOUR Pay? You are already supporting two workers. Try three on for size. Do the friggin math. We in the private sector are nothing more then the worker bees for the government workers high pay incompetent services and retirement income. And that doesn't take away anyone's freedom? This obummer tax-care plan raises over 25 new taxes on what is left of the private sector. Even if the gov prints phony dollars to pay these inflated wages and benefits, the phony monies that they print ends up as a hidden tax on you by devaluing the dollar in you bank account, retirement fund, and in your wallet.

People who don't give a crap are the very reason that these scoundrels and tyrants are in office.

Slacker G wrote:"An enlarged government in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean taking anybody's freedom."

REALLY?? Do the math. There are twice as many people working in government today then in all of the private sector. The average government worker makes considerable more than the average private sector worker makes. The government worker gets his medical paid for by the private sector. Most government jobs offer early retirement with full benefits. The retirement pay is far above and beyond what the private sector worker gets when he retires. The private sector worker pays FOR ALL OF IT!!! Now just how much bigger can the government get before they have to take ALL OF YOUR Pay? You are already supporting two workers. Try three on for size. Do the friggin math. We in the private sector are nothing more then the worker bees for the government workers high pay incompetent services and retirement income. And that doesn't take away anyone's freedom? This obummer tax-care plan raises over 25 new taxes on what is left of the private sector. Even if the gov prints phony dollars to pay these inflated wages and benefits, the phony monies that they print ends up as a hidden tax on you by devaluing the dollar in you bank account, retirement fund, and in your wallet.

People who don't give a crap are the very reason that these scoundrels and tyrants are in office.

. My wife is one of those "scoundrels." The vast majority of government employees make less than equivalent workers in the private sector. While the high profile government figures may arguably be overpaid most private sector CEO's and high profile execs make a much more obscenely high salary. Something has to give.

Slacker G wrote:"An enlarged government in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean taking anybody's freedom."

REALLY?? Do the math. There are twice as many people working in government today then in all of the private sector. The average government worker makes considerable more than the average private sector worker makes. The government worker gets his medical paid for by the private sector. Most government jobs offer early retirement with full benefits. The retirement pay is far above and beyond what the private sector worker gets when he retires. The private sector worker pays FOR ALL OF IT!!! Now just how much bigger can the government get before they have to take ALL OF YOUR Pay? You are already supporting two workers. Try three on for size. Do the friggin math. We in the private sector are nothing more then the worker bees for the government workers high pay incompetent services and retirement income. And that doesn't take away anyone's freedom? This obummer tax-care plan raises over 25 new taxes on what is left of the private sector. Even if the gov prints phony dollars to pay these inflated wages and benefits, the phony monies that they print ends up as a hidden tax on you by devaluing the dollar in you bank account, retirement fund, and in your wallet.

People who don't give a crap are the very reason that these scoundrels and tyrants are in office.

Have you any references to back up these claims or are they just your beliefs

Prevost82 wrote:

fisherman bob wrote:Another sad example of the polarization of American politics. Everything's classified as either liberal (far left) or conservative (far right). If a liberal issue passes the liberals gloat, if a conservative agenda passes, the conservatives gloat. There's a considerable amount of juvenile immaturity on both sides. The political "debates" which are not really debates by definition, exhibit nothing but persoonal attacks and mudslinging. I'm sick and disgusted with all levels of government, with people being labeled, and with the endless political dischord. If somebody has any solutions that make any sense why do we have to label that solution or that person as being liberal or conservative. We're basically closing the minds of half the population.

Well said Bob ...

Bob, check your ass...I Think Prevost's nose is up there... I only say this because as he applauds you on your statement about polarization , while at the same time, he's ranking top o the list as a guilty party. (Are all Canadians Hypocrites or just the unemployed ones ?)

fisherman bob wrote:

Slacker G wrote:"An enlarged government in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean taking anybody's freedom."

REALLY?? Do the math. There are twice as many people working in government today then in all of the private sector. The average government worker makes considerable more than the average private sector worker makes. The government worker gets his medical paid for by the private sector. Most government jobs offer early retirement with full benefits. The retirement pay is far above and beyond what the private sector worker gets when he retires. The private sector worker pays FOR ALL OF IT!!! Now just how much bigger can the government get before they have to take ALL OF YOUR Pay? You are already supporting two workers. Try three on for size. Do the friggin math. We in the private sector are nothing more then the worker bees for the government workers high pay incompetent services and retirement income. And that doesn't take away anyone's freedom? This obummer tax-care plan raises over 25 new taxes on what is left of the private sector. Even if the gov prints phony dollars to pay these inflated wages and benefits, the phony monies that they print ends up as a hidden tax on you by devaluing the dollar in you bank account, retirement fund, and in your wallet.

People who don't give a crap are the very reason that these scoundrels and tyrants are in office.

. My wife is one of those "scoundrels." The vast majority of government employees make less than equivalent workers in the private sector. While the high profile government figures may arguably be overpaid most private sector CEO's and high profile execs make a much more obscenely high salary. Something has to give.

Holy Smokes Bob! I deal with numerous U.S. Government Contracts... Some of those guys make a crap load of money...More than they deserve ... private firms work twice as hard as govt employees do... and many get paid much less

Prevost, If you are gonna challenge Slacker for facts, wouldn't it help if you brought your own facts to the table? How's your Job treating you... I assume you have one, right? Is it government? Its Not? OH...then what could you present here? Do you have friends with government jobs?

Plus I learned a long time ago: DONT take govt contracts. They are slow to pay.

I applied at CDC once as a Process Engineer. When I started answer the questions in the farce of an interview I realized very quickly that they had no idea what they were talking about. It was moron city.

I'd applied at IRS (I have repented!) years before and their security guy read my body language and took me aside: "You have some issues in your background - I can take care of that. We need good people."

I nearly bolted and ran. It wasn't my admittedly shady past I was worried about - it was my personal integrity. I was toitally freaked. Yeah - I could write software that would screw people wanted to keep a little bit more of their money. But I had applied for a job with a Gestapo type agency and I felt like I'd committed an egregiouis sin. I was mortified and almost ran out of there. I feel dirty just admitting this.

My Dad worked for them (DOD). Bob's wife etc etc. But they are not the leaders. At the top, there is a horror show going on.

They are evil, folks. They really are.

Talbot

The point being that there are more people working in gov than in the private sector and they do make more. It has nothing to do with anything but the bottom dollar. Their paid vacations, retirement (Some have said that they retire on 80-90% of their wage) their paid lifetime medical and other perks drawf what the chump in the private sector that is paying for all this get in the end.

Comparing Private Sector and Government Worker Salaries
Public sector offers ironclad job security and greater pension benefits

Adam Summers
May 10, 2010

There has been much debate over whether public sector employees are overpaid or underpaid, relative to their private sector counterparts, and how to make an "apples-to-apples" comparison of the compensation received by each since job functions are oftentimes quite different. The following seeks to address this issue in light of a new report that suggests that state and local government workers receive less total compensation than comparable private-sector workers, and to examine how issues not addressed in the study might affect those conclusions.

Are Public Sector Workers Overcompensated?

Several analyses of average wages and benefits in the public and private sectors reveal that state and local government workers earn more than private sector workers. According to the most recent Employer Costs for Employee Compensation survey from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour, compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers-a difference of over 44 percent. This includes 35 percent higher wages and nearly 69 percent greater benefits.

Data from the U.S. Census Bureau similarly show that in 2007 the average annual salary of a California state government employee was $53,958, nearly 32 percent greater than the average private sector worker ($40,991). In addition, as noted by reporter and Calpensions.com blogger Ed Mendel, in 2006 the state conducted a comparison of state and private sector compensation for the first time in two decades. While the Department of Personnel Administration survey did not include all job classifications, the analysis determined a number of benchmark job classifications and found that state compensation was greater than private sector compensation for clerical jobs, accountants, custodians, electricians, stationary engineers, and analysts, but lagged in medical occupations.

Moreover, data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis illustrate that average state and local government compensation has been increasing at a faster rate than average private sector compensation over the past 30 years (see the graph on page 89 of this Cato Journal article).

There are NOT more employees in government than there are in the private sector. Apart from being intuitively not possible, it is not factually correct.

It is not possible to have more employees in gov. than in private sector since the revenue stream that pays for government comes from the private sector.

BLS shows the following for May 2012 (in thousands):
Total Private Sector Employment: 111,337
Total Government Sector Employment: 21,969

So just under 20% of the total workforce is government employment at fed, state and local levels.