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#172131 by PaperDog
Fri May 04, 2012 8:18 am
Vampier wrote:You are also completely correct about the Jefe mentality. It fits right in with the macho pig attitudes that seem to riddle the culture. The odd thing about that is that it seems that the Mother's are responsible for that more than anything ??? Ta


Vampier, its a vicious cycle... A woman in Mexico is most likely too scared to not raise her son to be "in charge" . To give you an idea of how socialist that culture is,.. those mothers bear and raise their kids with the expectation that the kids will support them later . There are some lazy-assed men and women in that country, whose goal is to have as many kids as possible and build a little empire off of them...

I could go on...But, if its ever gonna change, it will probably be by way of the civil war that's happening right now.

Now here is a disturbing and scary thought... Is it possible, that maybe...the cartels "arent" the bad guys" in all of this mess... Is it possible that these are a group of rebels , who finally had enough of the Mexican status quo, and simply took matters into their own hands?
I know that if I wanted to take opver a country, I'd have to fund it with drugs...and while i was at it, I'd counter and defy every established institution in Mexico, to weaken the morale of the populus, in order to incite a revolution by the people... Simply drive them into the ground until they find their breaking point...

#172133 by Stringdancer
Fri May 04, 2012 12:19 pm
Here they go, the southern boys acting up again with blanket statements like ?Mexico/Mexican sucks? judging an entire country on the behavior of the criminal elements which every country is afflicted by.

It is like judging America/Americans solely on the behavior of the KKK. Or the southern states of the US, not an accurate or fair assessment.

Heckley when spewing venom at least spell your insult correctly the word is ?racist? not ?rascist? comprende compadre?

OK boys ask yourself who is the primary customer of these illegal drugs? Answer: Americans, who sells all the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartel? Answer: Americans.

The same old story the prostitute gets arrested and prosecuted while the John walks away free even though is abundantly clear that without customers the prostitute goes out of business. Now apply this analogy to the case of Mexican drugs and weapons and see if there is a correlation, for some of you might be challenging for the intellect, if that is the case ask a Mexican to explained it because Mexicans have been asking in frustration the US government and law enforcing agencies to clamp down the demand for drugs and the supply of weapons to and from Mexico drug cartel for decades.

What is going on in Mexico is very bad but to blame this drug war on Mexico criminals alone is to assign 50% of the responsibility, the other 50% is American. (See the prostitute/John analogy above)

Some red neck wrote a quote ?there is nothing more dangerous than an 18 year old American with a gun? well I would complete the quote ?there anything more dangerous and stupid than an 18 year old American with a gun?

To think that we Americans can shoot and kill our way out of all the problems confronting us is to validate the point of view of few Americans namely southern Americans at the expanse of a more rational, smart and less damaging approach that a Northerner would take when dealing with a situation.

Curb your xenophobia southern boys you are giving America a bad name, after all Mexico along with Canada is largest trading American partner guns and drugs notwithstanding.

I would like to clarify that we in the North are fully aware that the southern boys on this board with their views do not represent nor speak for the whole southern people or states, Northerners know in fact that the majority of the population in the south are in many case more intelligent and rational than some Northerners.

Off to my shelter Incomiiiiing!!!!

PS: If the holy shmowlies , radicals, red necks posse lobby for my expulsion from this board by blackmailing BM with the threat of living BM if I am not ejected, this might be my last post. But hey that is the price of freedom, better live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep. 8)

#172140 by jimmydanger
Fri May 04, 2012 1:00 pm
I love Mexico, I'm going again May 20!!

Regarding the drug violence, it's mostly by the border with Texas, not the resort areas. There wouldn't be so much of it if the U.S. has sensible drugs laws. I'm not a "LEGALIZE EVERYTHING" guy; I think marijuana should be legal and taxed just like alcohol and cigarettes are. Use the taxes raised to snuff out the harder drugs, especially cocaine, meth and heroin. Increase the penalties for possession and distribution of these drugs. Crack down on doctors who prescribe legal narcotics that end up on the street. But I have a feeling that legalizing pot would reduce the need for the harder stuff.

#172147 by Slacker G
Fri May 04, 2012 2:18 pm
jimmydanger wrote:I love Mexico, I'm going again May 20!!

Regarding the drug violence, it's mostly by the border with Texas, not the resort areas. There wouldn't be so much of it if the U.S. has sensible drugs laws. I'm not a "LEGALIZE EVERYTHING" guy; I think marijuana should be legal and taxed just like alcohol and cigarettes are. Use the taxes raised to snuff out the harder drugs, especially cocaine, meth and heroin. Increase the penalties for possession and distribution of these drugs. Crack down on doctors who prescribe legal narcotics that end up on the street. But I have a feeling that legalizing pot would reduce the need for the harder stuff.


I agree. Unfortunately, I believe the government makes too much money on the "War on Drugs" to ever do that. Drug enforcement is a well oiled money making machine for them.
#172149 by Vampier
Fri May 04, 2012 2:49 pm
Mexico ....It sounds like most posting here agree regarding the problems of Mexico ... even the "Southern Boys". It is brutal along the Texas Border and blame for the "drug violence" lies partly with the Cartels, partly with the citizens in the US and in Mexico, to a great extent with both governments and the vact that the average citizen in Mexico aside from any cultural problems does not have gun to defend themselves with.

I also Love Mexico and I Love my Mexican Wife as well. As always there is something to be said for understanding a country when one actually lives there and is not just a visitor. Living on the Border is far different than just passing through and having your windscreen washed. It was the same when I lived in Europe in some respects...the touristt returning saying "oh yes I know Europe, I was in London for three days and Paris for four and Amsterdam for one whole week."

In my opinion the facts speak for themselves ... before Calderon came into office there was a very small degree of violence compared to what there is now after he declared his stupid war on drugs...but as Slacker stated so well ...it is very profitable, Calderon and most of his "cabinet" of idiots were "educated" in the states. Fox sold Mexico to the NWO with NAFTA and it just goes on and on and as PaperDog states the violence just gets worse and worse and it is very gutwrenching to see.

Mexico has a long history of being raped by foreign "investors" and the culture although varied within Mexico is ripe with prejudice and all sorts of inherent problems which all act to retard any progress for the average citizen and indeed the country itself. Their government has always screwed them and it is merely more bare faced and blatant.

I certainly have no answer but I do Love living in Mexico and find the common people delightful especially farther to the south. It is very interesting to hear the perspectives of everyone here and I find it very educational and thought provoking. Ta

#172150 by Etu Malku
Fri May 04, 2012 3:02 pm
:wink: I bet there are more Mexicans on my street than there are in Mexico . . .

#172174 by PaperDog
Fri May 04, 2012 7:28 pm
Stringdancer wrote:Here they go, the southern boys acting up again with blanket statements like ?Mexico/Mexican sucks? judging an entire country on the behavior of the criminal elements which every country is afflicted by.


Naw we just like to complain ...its easier to lump everyone in, rather than to politically correct ourselves with copious details, caveats and explanations of distinctions. Those who know the real truth get it . Those who don't, simply wont.



It is like judging America/Americans solely on the behavior of the KKK. Or the southern states of the US, not an accurate or fair assessment.


If you are an American, whit caucasion , with family in the 17-1800s, then you are guilty, by association of slavery. (So say the African-American descendants of the slaves in America) Just pointing out that your theory might be a tad lucid.

Heckley when spewing venom at least spell your insult correctly the word is ?racist? not ?rascist? comprende compadre?

Really? So burning Crawsses on a lawn is less of crime?

OK boys ask yourself who is the primary customer of these illegal drugs? Answer: Americans, who sells all the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartel? Answer: Americans.


Agreed..but everybody already knew this

The same old story the prostitute gets arrested and prosecuted while the John walks away free even though is abundantly clear that without customers the prostitute goes out of business. Now apply this analogy to the case of Mexican drugs and weapons and see if there is a correlation, for some of you might be challenging for the intellect, if that is the case ask a Mexican to explained it because Mexicans have been asking in frustration the US government and law enforcing agencies to clamp down the demand for drugs and the supply of weapons to and from Mexico drug cartel for decades.


I guess I am intellectually challenged ... In California, people grow their own. In Canada, they grow their own and export. My guess is that its not "America" (the all sweeping statement again) but rather a region of it. I don't think Pot grows well in Michigan, (or Rhode Island) so maybe the demand to purchase it is higher there ..

What is going on in Mexico is very bad but to blame this drug war on Mexico criminals alone is to assign 50% of the responsibility, the other 50% is American. (See the prostitute/John analogy above)


This is not very serious logic. Too simple actually... Try this one: "Therefore...we should narrow the blame to Pot smoking Prostitues and Johns, who live in or about the region of the Eastern Seaboard, (who manufacture and bring along the rolling papers and trojans...)" Nah...maybe not?

Some red neck wrote a quote ?there is nothing more dangerous than an 18 year old American with a gun? well I would complete the quote ?there anything more dangerous and stupid than an 18 year old American with a gun?


okeeee...

To think that we Americans can shoot and kill our way out of all the problems confronting us is to validate the point of view of few Americans namely southern Americans at the expanse of a more rational, smart and less damaging approach that a Northerner would take when dealing with a situation.


Hmmm... Northerners (again, grand and sweeping assignment...You know you just prove my assertion above about our need to simplify our assertions...)
Wash DC is not located in the south... Last time I checked, Nobody in Texas or Lousiana lobbed an A billion $ a week dollar War across the ocean...

Curb your xenophobia southern boys you are giving America a bad name, after all Mexico along with Canada is largest trading American partner guns and drugs notwithstanding.


A gay parade down 5th avenue , with tasteless shoes...is giving America a bad name. As for trading with Mexico, how many more velvet Elvis paintings does a gay household need?

#172204 by Slacker G
Sat May 05, 2012 3:48 am
A gay parade down 5th avenue , with tasteless shoes...is giving America a bad name. As for trading with Mexico, how many more velvet Elvis paintings does a gay household need?


:) :) :)

Only two things can be learned by both prohibition and the war on drugs.

First: People are going to do what they want to do.

After all, who the he!! decided that a handful of people, born without any more rights than you were born with, can decide what is good for you and what is not good for you, as if they were some kind of gods. These are at best temporary hirelings that have turned into busybodies taking stewardship over everything except those things that they were hired to overlook. That being to uphold the constitution and protect is citizenry from hostilities.

Second,

That government NEVER LEARNS from its mistakes. Prohibition caused more crime, cost more money, and led to more murders and organized crime than anything up to that time. The war on drugs. Samey Samey. The problem with marijuana is governments and its law enforcement, not the drug suppliers. If pot were legal, there would be no drug wars. (Other than those caused amongst the suppliers themselves through litigation.)

We were born with freedom of choice. You want to put a gun to your head and blow your brains out? I don't think that would be a good idea, but if you need to do that, do it where the mess is easy to clean up. Darwin

#172207 by PaperDog
Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 am
Prevost82 wrote:
J-Haley wrote:


The real war in Mexico began as a Class warfare. In Mexico, you are either wealthy or poor...there is no middle class. In Mexico @15% of pop is actually wealthy (maybe 2 % are not govt) ...The rest are poor.
In Mexico, A rich man views a poor man as an 'undesirable' So, he stabs the undesirable man in the back by kicking him out of the social circle. When we read about a dozen decapitated torsos getting dug up, this is no longer about serial killing and its not about deliberate target discernment on somebody's hit-list... It is a grand sweep against an entire movement.


We own a beach house in Mexico by Progreso on the Yucatan ... yes there are a lot of poor people there, they aren't starving to death and are getting by, but there is a lot of middle class as well ... well over a million people are middle class just in our area .. driving middle class cars and living in middle class homes and working middle class jobs.

Merida (1 million) is an hour away from us they had 1 murder last year ... no big city in Canada, or the US, can boost those numbers ...

I think you're painting Mexico with to broad of bush


Wekll you are thinking incorrectly about me. ( Or maybe you just don't like anything I post.. (You and Jimmy Danger) )

I'm Addressing a political and social point. Your beach house sits quietly amidst it all, I'm sure...

What you call middle class is actually what the poor people there consider "rich" or wealthy.. By US standards they are typically deemed middle class. Look up the word "Fresa": That may explain why there is an appearance of middle class.

Owning a beach house is not the same as residing in a pueblo in the interior. (i.e Chihuaian desert). Anything on the beach is inclined to be viewed as contemporary and not so 'rugged". and You're more inclined to find Europeans and Canadians living there than you will local indigenous POOR citizens... In fact if your house is within 50 miles of the beach, you are subject to conditions that don't apply anywhere else in the country (Except along borders) .. That speaks to the Government's interst in upholding tourism...which attracts many northerners. Sorry But in my opinion, living at your beach house a few weeks out of the years does not speak to a real depiction of life in Mexico.. I been living round the border for 30 some years and I know what I see here...
I got 2 million mexican /latino people here, where I live, to back up my claims about Mexico...

#172211 by MikeTalbot
Sat May 05, 2012 6:52 am
"... who sells all the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartel? Answer: Americans. "

Respectfully, bullshit.

Other than the guns our gestapo shipped south those fellows have numerous sources. I advert you to the fact that fully automatic uzis and Ak 47s are not available in the US. Or believe me, I'd have 'em.

The only other American guns turning up down there are again - compliments of the stiinking communist traitors we have in charge of the country - ie democrats and republicans.

They send lots of military gear including weapons to the Mex Army who in turn sell them to the cartels. Everybody wins right?

I'm past knowing who the good guys are but I'd trust the cartels before I'd trust the American or Mexican govts.

Sorry to dissapoint - I'm a hardcore unreconstructed Southern Rebel who likes Mexicans. Long story...

I don't blame them for border jumping - but I blame our freakish wretches who pose as leaders yet don't defend our borders. While at the same time whining that we are running out of resources and are totally broke yet ignoring the fact that we can't afford the influx of people who are overwhelming our infrastructure.. Cognitive dissidence all around eh?

Talbot

#172212 by PaperDog
Sat May 05, 2012 7:40 am
MikeTalbot wrote:"... who sells all the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartel? Answer: Americans. "

Respectfully, bullshit.

Other than the guns our gestapo shipped south those fellows have numerous sources. I advert you to the fact that fully automatic uzis and Ak 47s are not available in the US. Or believe me, I'd have 'em.

The only other American guns turning up down there are again - compliments of the stiinking communist traitors we have in charge of the country - ie democrats and republicans.

They send lots of military gear including weapons to the Mex Army who in turn sell them to the cartels. Everybody wins right?

I'm past knowing who the good guys are but I'd trust the cartels before I'd trust the American or Mexican govts.

Sorry to dissapoint - I'm a hardcore unreconstructed Southern Rebel who likes Mexicans. Long story...

I don't blame them for border jumping - but I blame our freakish wretches who pose as leaders yet don't defend our borders. While at the same time whining that we are running out of resources and are totally broke yet ignoring the fact that we can't afford the influx of people who are overwhelming our infrastructure.. Cognitive dissidence all around eh?

Talbot


Mike, I'm pretty sure that the US is behind a lot of the weapons sales that go south... Not necessarily to the Cartels, but to the Mex Govt , which we know is extremely corrupt. As you know, , in AMerica whats good for the goose aint always good for the gander... We can mfg, /Broker and sell anything if the price is right, but that don't mean we sell it to ourselves..(re AKAs and UZis) (The cobblers children never wear shoes)

We did this (selling weapons) before WWII and were doing it now... You might also recall the Iran Contra scam with Ollie North...If I recall, Wasn't that about the US weapons being sold to highest bidder between Iran and Iraq? (Maybe I'm wrong about that one...)

Just read another news report today, NUEVO LAREDO, 23 bodies... 9 of em hanging from a bridge (5 men, 4 women) and other decapitated and dismembered. Cartels are evil mother f**k... Even in a civil war, this is just too indulgent on their part.

#172216 by Stringdancer
Sat May 05, 2012 10:53 am
MikeTalbot wrote:"... who sells all the weapons used by the Mexican drug cartel? Answer: Americans. "

Respectfully, bullshit.

Other than the guns our gestapo shipped south those fellows have numerous sources. I advert you to the fact that fully automatic uzis and Ak 47s are not available in the US. Or believe me, I'd have 'em.

The only other American guns turning up down there are again - compliments of the stiinking communist traitors we have in charge of the country - ie democrats and republicans.

They send lots of military gear including weapons to the Mex Army who in turn sell them to the cartels. Everybody wins right?

I'm past knowing who the good guys are but I'd trust the cartels before I'd trust the American or Mexican govts.

Sorry to dissapoint - I'm a hardcore unreconstructed Southern Rebel who likes Mexicans. Long story...

I don't blame them for border jumping - but I blame our freakish wretches who pose as leaders yet don't defend our borders. While at the same time whining that we are running out of resources and are totally broke yet ignoring the fact that we can't afford the influx of people who are overwhelming our infrastructure.. Cognitive dissidence all around eh?

Talbot


Talbot nobody is nor should be disappointed for being unreconstructed southerner fairly sure you have your motivation which are unique to your state, we can debate at will our differences amongst Americans so long the debate does not spill over the border in an insulting way.

There have been, are and will be issues between Mexico and the US. due to the geopolitical proximity of the two country, is not wrong expressing one?s opinion on these issues if it is done in a civil way.

One can voice he/er frustration even anger if backed by the motivating logic, facts or opinions without resorting to debase an entire population of a country, these needs to be said if not the only voice the world hears or reads will be that of an unarticulated angry American who thinks his riding on the consensus of public opinion at large when in fact he represent only a small percentage of the American population.

On the weapons issue I am not going to debate you, my position is based on news reports and footage I saw on newsreel where they show M16 and other American made guns used by both Mexican criminals and Mexican law enforcement bodies.

You may have a better insight on this than I but I believe that Americans made weapons play a dominant role in this so called war on drugs.

You asked in your rebuttal post if a state or country can withstand an influx of immigrants, I would invite you to read the short report in the link provided it pertains coincidentally to the state where you reside, it comes under the heading of that old adage ?Be careful of what you wish for you might get it?

No banter in this post, mockery is only for those who deserve it.


http://boingboing.net/2011/06/22/georgias-anti-immigr.html

#172217 by JCP61
Sat May 05, 2012 11:11 am
Stringdancer wrote:





http://boingboing.net/2011/06/22/georgias-anti-immigr.html


I gather from this inference you prefer that we reinstate the status quo which is migrant farm workers (slavery) because of lost crops?

or that you believe that abolishing slavery like the abolishing of drug addiction is a good practice, or, what are you advocating?

you seems to playing on both sides of the fence.

#172218 by Stringdancer
Sat May 05, 2012 11:31 am
Dog I am not going to address point by point like your rebuttal because some of your points are valid like my sweeping statements regarding southerners, I am not going to justify it except it is my way to fight fire with fire with someone who uses the same disparaging method, it is like holding a mirror in front a red neck.

The example of the gay parade draws criticism as it should but it is an issue confined in the US it does not pertain to the subject at hand.

As for the trade with Mexico I know the Elvis reference was done in jest
but is worth noting that Mexicans drive American made cars, refrigerators,
Etc.

The list is a long one I am not going to bore you with it, a quick google search would illustrate the scope of the trade which amounts in billion per year.

BTW this drug was is not only about weed, there is a lot of cocaine involved and from the reports I have read is the major culprit In the carnage. You made the point these drugs are consumed by northerners, well it is true, in my original post I stated Americans not just southerners.

As in Talbot rebuttal I am not going to use mockery here in concordance with my MO. to answer in kind IE using the same tone of the person whom I am debating with.

#172219 by JCP61
Sat May 05, 2012 11:37 am
a lot of words and few to the point.

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