Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I have honestly never heard any other artist or groups that have my sound. So, I'm kinda at a loss when I try to tell people what genre I play. It's kinda Jazzy Progressive if I was to guess. Can you guys help me decide what it actually is (if anything)?
If you've heard any other bands that sound like me, please shoot me a link.

I definitely hear the progressive influence...there are aspects of Dream Theater in there, as well as some of their influences like YES. As far as the jazz end, I get that more from the actual tones you use.
I like what you are doing. The odd meters and progressions are a nice change from the norm. Pretty impressive over all.

That being said, your second song sounds A LOT (to me) like the first. You have technique, now let's see some composition. It sounds to me like you have focused on the meters and opted to use the same tones. Aside from the musicianship, there wasn't much to keep me listening for longer than a minute or so (I did, but that was to give you a fair assessment). You've got 6+ minutes of music and I, as the listener, wouldn't be compelled to listen for more than a minute, even though you had two tracks...that should tell you something.

I look forward to hearing more from you. As far as genre, I'm sure there is a jazz archtype that you fit into.
When I get more familiar, I'll be able to answer that a little better.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the input.. I appreciate you takin' the time... I really am grateful.

Though I would have to disagree with your view that I need more composition. If you hadn't noticed there aren't even any phrases that repeat till halfway in each song. I don't like the typical formula of verses and choruses. I feel that a phrase should ride out as long as it is naturally able, changing as much as possible, without compromising the musicality, before it makes a return. If you have a different definition of composition, then ok. But as I understand it, 6 parts that flow unrepeated are better than 3 parts repeated. There is less unique material in most songs today due to the fact that the chorus can be played upward of 6-9 times in a single song.

Though, I'm not trying to come off as defensive, it's just that my compositionship is what I'm most proud of. and you basically just said (to my ears) "you got the chops kid, now make some actual music"... I know you didn't mean it like I just made it sound, and you meant nothing personal, just trying to help, ect. It just hurts a little.

Eh, don't be hurt.

Perhaps should have made my perspective clear...I tend to focus on certain "pop" asthetics. I tend to tell people, for example, if they have a "solo" section in a song that is 60 seconds, it's too long. The reason being that you have to think in terms of the listener's attention span. In that respect, having that long of a section that doesn't have any repetitiveness (familiarity, to your listener) means that the listener is going to stop doing the one thing you want him to do-listen.

I get what you are saying about your composition-and I think you do have skills. I just want to help you recognize that, in a marketable sense, uniqueness has to be tempered with familiarity. It's not only about marketing, though. It's about listener's in general. 6 parts that flow unrepeated may seem interesting to you, but the truth is that after 30 seconds, your audience is going to question where you are going with it. Like it or not, that's why you hear the chorus in a song 6-9 times...it's the "hook" that keeps your audience from walking away.

There is more of a jazz aspect to your playing than I initially thought, as you've demonstrated with your explanation. My point is, if you take anything from what I've said, I think you need to focus more on retaining the listener's attention-it's a battle you are gonna constantly fight, meaning the battle between doing what you think is good and what other people expect.

As far as the "kid" reference, you did that yourself. You are young, but your playing is a testament to your dedication.
A little different advice:
DON'T expect people to down you because of your age.
Don't get butt-hurt when people give you the input you asked for.
Don't assume that your work is no in need of refinement-you are doing great, but you've got a long way to go.

And jeez o pete's most of all, don't take ANYTHING to heart that someone has said to you onthe internet!!!

Yeah, you're right. If I was making pop music, I would need to change a whole lot. My circle of friends along with myself tend to listen to very complex music that rarely has simple hooks or gimmicks. Like Shpongle or Richard Devine. Just what I'm used to. I make the music I want to hear. Even though I do care what people think of it, I make it because these are the songs that I wish existed so all I can do is make them myself.

I didn't mean to imply that you wear calling me kid, or making judgments based on age, just that I took it with the same vein and one would to that sorta phrase. I am usually pretty good at not taking things personal on the web. I just hold my music close to my heart, so it's easier to get upset over it. I never shared my music like this before. Still getting used to it I guess. And technically I didn't ask for an evaluation. Just a genre label.

That being said, I admire you cutting to the chase and telling it like it is in your criticisms. I had a design teacher like that. She never let anyone turn in anything with out saying exactly how mediocre or unprofessional something was, or making them do it like 2-3 times from scratch over again. I'm only better for it.

I like the second song a lot. Had just a tastful dash of McCloaughlan. The first song seem just a bit, well - tentative?

All in all - you're getting it done. You're not fooling around with covers, your ego is big as all outdoors (You'll need that for a while longer ) and for my money you are putting together decent material, well played.

Talbot

TylerBarnes wrote:

you guys help me decide what it actually is (if anything)?

I did. It's a work in progress. If you handed me two slices of bread and asked me what kind of sandwich it was, i'd tell you the same. That statement sounded a lot like a request for a an evaluation to me.

Good...do your own thing. I'm not trying to change your mind or disillusion (sp) you in some way. To be honest, there are people on here that are better suited to answer your question than I am. I just figured I'd give ya my input, for what it's worth.

Welcome to the forum. Stick around, there's a lot of good people and much to learn.

the genre is digital new age.
the worst thing a composer can do is attempt to fool one self.

it is not Jazz in any respect,
it is not progressive, although it would have been 30 or 35 years ago.
so all your really left with, is a digital composition, that you have played live bass with .
the progression is very 2 dimensional.
You just left it loose enough to improvise with, so you your self won't get bored with the line.

don't get me wrong it is very pleasant and fun to jam too.
if you have the balls you should attempt to get several people in a room and attempt a performance.

These are the parent genre's

Rock
Pop
R&B
Hip-hop
Classical
Country
Jazz

You would fall under a sub-Jazz genre.

TylerBarnes wrote:I have honestly never heard any other artist or groups that have my sound. So, I'm kinda at a loss when I try to tell people what genre I play. It's kinda Jazzy Progressive if I was to guess. Can you guys help me decide what it actually is (if anything)?
If you've heard any other bands that sound like me, please shoot me a link.

Wow Tyler! Your music is amazing! I dig how you utilize the syncopation on the first song to push the rhythm. Also, big fan of the 7/4 on the second song. I think the overall melodies and motifs fit well with the underlying progressions. I hope you find musicians to play your progressive genre.

JCP61 wrote:if you have the balls you should attempt to get several people in a room and attempt a performance.

I'm not quite certain I understand your angle. You mean get people together as in an audience, or together as accompaniment? I'm obviously looking for live members to 'attempt a performance' with. There isn't exactly a plethora players near me suited or interested in playing odd or difficult music. But I can perform these tunes live in front of folks and have done if thats what you mean. Again, I'm obviously playing over my mix just rendered without the bass track. Technically all I need is the bass track to be able to perform them live. There are written as solo pieces, Jean Baudin style. Then developed the sequenced sections tightly around that...

JCP61 wrote:You just left it loose enough to improvise with, so you your self won't get bored with the line.

Actually the bass parts are locked down with zero room for improvising on my part. You might not tell from just the audio, but I'm using two handed tap technique, so every single note transition had to be planned out scrupulously to even play it right. Not saying it perfect or nothin'. But If thats two dimensional, than sign me up to live in flat land.



If I'm what you would call 'Digital New Age', can you give me any example of any artists in this genre? Or is this just a label used to describe the method in which the music was generated, i.e in a digital workstation? In my book, that isn't what constitutes a genre. It would be ridiculous to call everything made on a synth techno, or everything played on an acoustic folk music.

TylerBarnes wrote:

JCP61 wrote:if you have the balls you should attempt to get several people in a room and attempt a performance.

I'm not quite certain I understand your angle. You mean get people together as in an audience, or together as accompaniment? I'm obviously looking for live members to 'attempt a performance' with. There isn't exactly a plethora players near me suited or interested in playing odd or difficult music. But I can perform these tunes live in front of folks and have done if thats what you mean. Again, I'm obviously playing over my mix just rendered without the bass track. Technically all I need is the bass track to be able to perform them live. There are written as solo pieces, Jean Baudin style. Then developed the sequenced sections tightly around that...

JCP61 wrote:You just left it loose enough to improvise with, so you your self won't get bored with the line.

Actually the bass parts are locked down with zero room for improvising on my part. You might not tell from just the audio, but I'm using two handed tap technique, so every single note transition had to be planned out scrupulously to even play it right. Not saying it perfect or nothin'. But If thats two dimensional, than sign me up to live in flat land.



If I'm what you would call 'Digital New Age', can you give me any example of any artists in this genre? Or is this just a label used to describe the method in which the music was generated, i.e in a digital workstation? In my book, that isn't what constitutes a genre. It would be ridiculous to call everything made on a synth techno, or everything played on and acoustic folk music.

yes, to your 1st question;
I'm sure you will discover in short order that, having a composition even one you believe is ground breaking is no guarantee that anyone else will agree with you. either listeners or players. so before you start telling your self that the reason your on your own is because " no one recognizes your genius", you should take some reading on music history and composition.

both your tunes are written in two sections,
1: a fairly straight forward progression followed by a disconnected improvised line , I mean theory wise. you might have decided on permanent versions of these lines but theory wise they can be improvised and be totally indistinguishable.
so music of this type is not really three dimensional, it just has a unhooked repeating break, that can be in key or incorporate accidentals. and if I'm not mistaken that is the definition of improvisation.
you won't really find a genre for this, except maybe on soundcloud.

this is actually a great way to play but it creates arguments as soon as another musician enters the room. cause everyone will have there own idea what the break should be.
"brand X" did things of this sort in the 80's
these types of bands in the end were referred to as jam bands and not really classified beyond that.
others here no doubt are better at contemporary music history than I am.

By digital new age I was referring to the fact until midi and drum machines this music would have to be an intense collaborative effort and I wager would sound very different.
but nowa days it can be whipped out fairly simply by one individual without the interference of troublesome drummers and keyboard players.
so with some small variation these compositions are piling up on the web at an astounding rate.

I don't mean to bust your balls but
I always find the opening question of "what genera am I?" to be a little disingenuous.

The genre is
"I only care about the pleasure I derive from my music."
I too am part of that genre. The difference is I LOVE repeating parts. Verse melodies, choruses. So other people end up enjoying my music too.


When parts are good they deserve to be repeated in a song.

I listened to both tracks I did not realize one had stopped and the other started. I had zero interest in listening again. See my love for repeating parts above.

You are on your own in this one. It's not credible in my opinion until you can perform it TRULY live.

I loop live. But since your parts don't repeat that's not an option for you.

If you get to work with someone good enough to memorize non repeating phrases they are going to want to write their own parts. OR perhaps you can find people of like mind who you can trade off learning each others intricate material.

If it is your passion go for it. The web offers much opportunity to find like minded musicians.

You got chops and great recording skills young man, but sorry from my persepective it just sounds like MUZAK to me, something I would hear in an elevator or something.

I read some other things and heard references to Dream Theatre and all that, got excited and finally listened, but I just dont feel any fire in it, its way too sterile sounding to get my interest.

It has some roots in jazz, because to me you just repeat and expand on the same theme in your music over and over, but it just really doesnt take me anywhere.

I might like it more if there was some hotrod guitar player on top.

You are going to have a hard time getting others on board to make this happen live, cause from my viewpoint there is a very very small market for what you are doing, you are on a hard core musician site and nobody seems to care for it, that should tell you something.

From all of this what i say at this point is you might be a good film scorer.

Your genre is MUZAK to my ears, or light jazz fusion.

jw123 wrote:I might like it more if there was some hotrod guitar player on top.

Not gunna happen. Guitarists tend to make every song about their masturbatory wankly pankly solos. They are merely treble that can can be found elsewhere. Don't care if that sounds smug... but you guys are replaceable. If I want solos I'll add clarinet or violin.