Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

There have been a lot of discussions here about songwriting. Here is a good bit of wisdom from one of my heroes, Dennis DeYoung. You may love or hate him, or Styx, but no one can deny his achievements in the field of songwriting-just take a glance at the collection of awards behind him. He offers some insight about the process, as well as insight into knowing when you are on to something good versus something that is mediocre:

http://youtu.be/TrnJJmDqe5o

Ive always appreciated his song writing abilitys, but man his band mates couldnt stand him after making em do the ROBOTO stuff, they just wanted to rock!

That was good stuff jos. I could really relate to what he was saying.
By the way I have listened to a couple of your songs and like your
methods of melody change within the songs. That is a lost art it seems
nowadays.[/b]

Thank you very much, Klugmo! I focus quite a bit on hooks and keeping the song interesting to the listener. I don't always succeed...

JW, the funny thing is, they actually kicked him out a few years earlier! I actually didn't know this until fairly recently. They booted him as Paradise Theater was being released, and then it became hugely successful. They more or less HAD to bring him back. It also put him in the driver's seat as far as musical direction. I think the truth behind their success was that friction-oe of the things I always loved about Styx was the fact that they could rock on one song and play a sweet ballad the next (and give ya a chance to cuddle up with some little honey, wink wink.). Seriously, I liked the diversity of styles. I think it's what made them. Kind of sad that they couldn't co-exist. I don't think they would have been as great, had the music leaned strictly to one side or the other...

joseph6 wrote:There have been a lot of discussions here about songwriting. Here is a good bit of wisdom from one of my heroes, Dennis DeYoung. You may love or hate him, or Styx, but no one can deny his achievements in the field of songwriting-just take a glance at the collection of awards behind him. He offers some insight about the process, as well as insight into knowing when you are on to something good versus something that is mediocre:

http://youtu.be/TrnJJmDqe5o

Interesting Interview. I have mixed feelings about the advice... I think he was really describing the common dilemma that most musicians face, which is...Can we write a 'hit song at will'. I don't really see how anybody can recognize one, even as they create it.

Me personally (for what its worth), I just strive to write everything more than mediocre... (Not sure I will ever achieve that but...) if can, then eventually, I should be able to crank out hit after hit... (Theoretically)

Also , I think It goes back to what audiences will accept as non-mediocre (which is ironic sonce the public is vehemently accused of mediocre tastes) .

When that song " The Macarena" came out, it was a virtual household epiphat for about 4-6 weeks..But it was also (in my opinion) one of the most ridiculous songs out there...And Yet... it was hit...(who would have known?)

Joseph I saw Styx and Reo last year, and man Styx was great, I loved them, they rocked, came out with Ms America.

I like that behind the music deal, the tall guitarist commented on the use of the name, he said I cant disclose what we did, but he get to use the name Styx and he gets to use his name, as for us we decided to hit the highway and thats what we are doing. Or something to that effect.

I know lots of people dont like Styx, but they are a great band, with some great music that I grew up on, and man they have some nasty guitar tones and solos, gotta love that!

Yeah, JW, initially after the split, Dennis was promoting himself as "The Voice of Styx." The courts said that he could not label himself as such. They kept the band name (although the only original left in the band in Chuck Panozzo, and that's only on rare ocassions), as well as being allowed to use the catalog of music-including everything Dennis wrote for the band. He still performs all of the Styx songs as well. I've watched a few recent youtube vids of his, and his band even LOOKS like th guys from Styx. Recently, they removed his name from the band history on their official website.

PaperDog, one of the things that I took from the interview is the idea of looking past the initial feelings of excitement for a developing song and recognizing it's true potential. It's easy to get caught up in the moment and think that something is really good, only to find out later that it's not really that hot. What I took from it was the idea of tuning in to your own personal B.S. meter-recognizing when something is less than what it could be.
As an example, I can remember, early on in my band experiences, we would record our practices. At the time we were playing the material, we could have sworn that we sounded like pros! I learned quickly to let the excitement pass and then go back and listen...more often than not, I would here everything that was wrong with it...sometimes to the point that I would scrap ideas that we had worked on for quite a while.
The point is that part of being a songwriter is recognizing when something is truly worthwhile. I'm not speaking in termns of what an audience likes-and I think you demonstrated that point clearly with the "Macarena" reference. You are correct. Who would have thought that would be such a big hit? I mean, someone did-and they were absolutely right on, but I don't think that this is the kind of ting that Dennis was talking about. While he mentions "hits", I apply what he says more to the idea of "quality". I think, in those terms, it is certainly possible to train yourself to recognize when you are producing quality, versus producing mediocre material.
Don't know if all that makes sense...

BTW, I'm a little out of whack here. How do you add people to your connections list?

I hope Tommy Shaw is still with them, he added a lot of character to the guitar soloing..

He is. (I believe he's a MO native, right?).

joseph6 wrote:Yeah, JW, initially after the split, Dennis was promoting himself as "The Voice of Styx." The courts said that he could not label himself as such. They kept the band name (although the only original left in the band in Chuck Panozzo, and that's only on rare ocassions), as well as being allowed to use the catalog of music-including everything Dennis wrote for the band. He still performs all of the Styx songs as well. I've watched a few recent youtube vids of his, and his band even LOOKS like th guys from Styx. Recently, they removed his name from the band history on their official website.

PaperDog, one of the things that I took from the interview is the idea of looking past the initial feelings of excitement for a developing song and recognizing it's true potential. It's easy to get caught up in the moment and think that something is really good, only to find out later that it's not really that hot. What I took from it was the idea of tuning in to your own personal B.S. meter-recognizing when something is less than what it could be.
As an example, I can remember, early on in my band experiences, we would record our practices. At the time we were playing the material, we could have sworn that we sounded like pros! I learned quickly to let the excitement pass and then go back and listen...more often than not, I would here everything that was wrong with it...sometimes to the point that I would scrap ideas that we had worked on for quite a while.
The point is that part of being a songwriter is recognizing when something is truly worthwhile. I'm not speaking in termns of what an audience likes-and I think you demonstrated that point clearly with the "Macarena" reference. You are correct. Who would have thought that would be such a big hit? I mean, someone did-and they were absolutely right on, but I don't think that this is the kind of ting that Dennis was talking about. While he mentions "hits", I apply what he says more to the idea of "quality". I think, in those terms, it is certainly possible to train yourself to recognize when you are producing quality, versus producing mediocre material.
Don't know if all that makes sense...

Joseph, Yes, the way you put it, I agree... I tend to look for thematically and musically sound structure, followed by whatever points of feature I can offer into it... There are just some certain subject matters that don't work well in the genres we produce. If I want to write a song about 'food', It prolly aint gonna work too well with ballads..."They call it cucumber Love? " (But it might kick-ass with an aerobics exercise mantra lol!) . I think often, perfectly good themes can get misplaced. Sometimes, perfectly good themes get misaligned and out of agreement with the technical parts of it...
I tend to overlook the lack of technical prowess in my stuff... and yes...I admit that I get sloppy as hell...I'm not really an agile player...
I totally get what you are saying about these really cool practice sessions where it feels so damn good...we just "know" its so hot..LOL!

joseph6 wrote:He is. (I believe he's a MO native, right?).

I think he's from Alabama, and played with Ted Nugent once..

"Cucumber love"? I work with some women who could relate to that...

When I write a song, first I have an idea or hook. Next I turn on the recorder and i'll just see where the song takes me. In other words what can I do for the song. When I collaborate I do the same.