Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

What's the trick to adding a classical instrument into a song, to give that song a 'flavor, without actually featuring the instrument or drowning the song in that flavor...
You advice is greatly appreciated

Also If you haven't already, check out my non-comedic Christmas song... video link on my profile . (Yes..I just pulled a shameless plug... No, i did not start this thread just for that purpose...

Well...maybe a little....But my original question stands...

If you are using 2 similar lines, the one with the slightly louder volume will be a natural progression to where you want to go.

If the other line then changes, you can lower the volume on the off line and slightly increase the volume on the good one almost like a pseudo fade in and the louder line will take over.

.From what you say, I'd take your instrument line that you speak of and slowly fade it in, while lowering the volume on the other line slightly.

Try and use the automation feature..

I hope that helps..I am rereading this and it sounds like a stupid answer..
I hope it helped..

fade in/fade out/automation

In the places where most people hear lead guitar fills and licks
are all appropriate for strings or whatever. Listen to some
Jethro and hear his timing and placement of flute. I think
the real answer lies in the talent level of whoevers playin.

Being a Beatles fan, your head is already filled with many great examples of subtle melodies to full orchestrations. Eleanor Rigby can be played on just an acoustic but man it's beautiful just the way George M composed it. None of the lads even played on the song.
I digress...

Do you have a keyboard that allows you to simulate orchestrated instruments? Good place to start... If you're not already hearing it in your head you need to experiment.
Personally I like to start with a little cello and some staccato.

When writing songs I think it is a good idea to have the basic rythm and vocal tracks that can stand alone. when I write I set there with my acoustic guitar and build the drum track during that time a lot is revealed to me! I prefer to record a rythm guitar track then I will jam with it until I find a bass line that weaves with the song. Then I pick the guitar back up and jam with it until I have a 2cd rythm guitar track that is NOT the same as the first. At that point I am ready to lay down a vocal track. Then a vocal harmony and 3rd vocal harmony. Then It's time to add the lead guitar track! I like to think of a song in terms of the vocal and guitar everything else I think of as ornamental. When adding fills or the 2 cd rythm track I like to keep them from covering up or taking away from the lead vocal or melody portion of the song. Sometimes the 2cd rythm track turns out to be hole note or half notes!

I appreciate all the inputs... Allow me to detail some background.

I have a song "Bench For two" (many of you guys prolly already heard the scratch track... )

The Song has part of its basis from many years ago... when I had a fiance, who lived in Paris... I flew in one year to spend a month with her...

We actually had gone to a place on the outskirts one day...an artist colony/market, which convened every Sunday at the local park of that district...They'd set up their work and try to sell it..

Well, It was at that park, that I spotted these benches and some old guy (not homeless) sitting in one of them... The place was crowded, so most of the other benches were full up... But this one guy seemed to ward off passer-byers from taking a seat there... He was in fact feeding some pigeons...and there were children with balloons around, and there was even a nearby cafe (which the song alludes to as 'kitchen" )

The rest of the song came to me a while later (In Victoria B.C.) when I myself was sitting in a park bench.. at the parliament grounds watching beautiful women pass by...(I wasnt aqualung and they weren't little girls LOL)

back then Cell phones hadn't quite saturated the market, so there were no cell phones... but I recall not a one of them ladies that passed by ever 'noticed me sitting there...' All the rest was just embellishment and made up..

Okay to wrap this up... what i want to do with the song is add a French-Accordian... (Yes we have an outstanding keyboard equip to handle this)

We tried that voice but it was too glaring...and actually it initially destroyed rather than enhanced the pastoral back drop I was trying to get across...

I get that its gonna have to be subtle...I.e How does one suggest the' pot of tea is sweet', without actually adding more than one teaspon of sugar? That is my dilemma...

The instrument is a correct choice for this song...But Like Klugmo said...it comes down to the expertise of the musician behind it... I may have to hire a damn accordian player...(In this case it really would be cool if the guy had worked for Lawrence Welk...)
lol


.

Paper, you might be able to make a little mid 8 section of the song and feature this sound, or just use it during the intro and exit of the song.

I actually had an accordian around the house for a while, but I was totally useless on that thing.

This is just me but strings or a violin might give the added effect you want. For me when I think of Paris a violin comes to mind, you know a guy serenading a couple at a sidewalk cafe. but thats just my initial take on your idea

Good Luck

jw123 wrote:Paper, you might be able to make a little mid 8 section of the song and feature this sound, or just use it during the intro and exit of the song.

I actually had an accordian around the house for a while, but I was totally useless on that thing.

This is just me but strings or a violin might give the added effect you want. For me when I think of Paris a violin comes to mind, you know a guy serenading a couple at a sidewalk cafe. but thats just my initial take on your idea

Good Luck

JW (and the rest ) You are correct. (re Strings) In fact , I was playing around with a viola , Contra-bass, and Piano , and have those strategically placed. They will give the song a classical standard-feel. But for the French effect...specific to that park... Just need that damn accordian ... I know... I'll hire an organ grinder with a monkey! hee hee! ...whoops... Sorry, I meant..."minkey".

Chief Engineer Scott wrote:If you are using 2 similar lines, the one with the slightly louder volume will be a natural progression to where you want to go.

If the other line then changes, you can lower the volume on the off line and slightly increase the volume on the good one almost like a pseudo fade in and the louder line will take over.

.From what you say, I'd take your instrument line that you speak of and slowly fade it in, while lowering the volume on the other line slightly.

Try and use the automation feature..

I hope that helps..I am rereading this and it sounds like a stupid answer..
I hope it helped..

fade in/fade out/automation

Thanks Scott, Actually your anwser makes some sense... from a Mixing approach... Fade ins/outs are very dynamic and powerful when done correctly ...and yes, it seems that a play on Left and Right tracks adds some life to the effort. All in all, I agree that a low level (i.e volume and presence) can do the trick.. (Hows that saying go...? "Less is more")

Jahva wrote:Being a Beatles fan, your head is already filled with many great examples of subtle melodies to full orchestrations. Eleanor Rigby can be played on just an acoustic but man it's beautiful just the way George M composed it. None of the lads even played on the song.
I digress...

Do you have a keyboard that allows you to simulate orchestrated instruments? Good place to start... If you're not already hearing it in your head you need to experiment.
Personally I like to start with a little cello and some staccato.

You know me too well Jahva...

I hear it in my head...Unfortunately, right now , my head is shaped like a football about it.. LOL... (Call me STewie) haha!

J-HALEY wrote:When writing songs I think it is a good idea to have the basic rythm and vocal tracks that can stand alone. when I write I set there with my acoustic guitar and build the drum track during that time a lot is revealed to me! I prefer to record a rythm guitar track then I will jam with it until I find a bass line that weaves with the song. Then I pick the guitar back up and jam with it until I have a 2cd rythm guitar track that is NOT the same as the first. At that point I am ready to lay down a vocal track. Then a vocal harmony and 3rd vocal harmony. Then It's time to add the lead guitar track! I like to think of a song in terms of the vocal and guitar everything else I think of as ornamental. When adding fills or the 2 cd rythm track I like to keep them from covering up or taking away from the lead vocal or melody portion of the song. Sometimes the 2cd rythm track turns out to be hole note or half notes!

...

I actually appreciate the method you described... In fact, Since I use Click tracks..The engineer showed me a cool trick... Once the meter was set, and having already heard the scratch, he lays down toms and snares...and I start to work off of that...Man, the ideas come a flowin.

KLUGMO wrote:In the places where most people hear lead guitar fills and licks
are all appropriate for strings or whatever. Listen to some
Jethro and hear his timing and placement of flute. I think
the real answer lies in the talent level of whoevers playin.

Good example (Jethro)... and I totally agree about the talent level...

PD,
I have a song called Moonlight. I originally used an accordion for some color. But I found it over-bearing and replaced it with a harmonica. It wound up much simpler than the accordion lines but it fit much better imo. It's far from perfecto but the feel is still there to me.
I also used strings on the last verse just for a little build. It definitely can be tricky to find the right shade. I'm sure you'll figure it out even if it just means $$$ for that hired gun!

These guys use a violin plus various stringed instruments, hurdigurdy and what have you.

Subway to sally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSusRJoPRfY

Talbot

jw123 wrote:Paper, you might be able to make a little mid 8 section of the song and feature this sound.

Fing great idea, JW. That's really HOT !!!

A decrescendo featuring the section, that's got me drooling a little with anticipation..

SUBWAY TO SALLY sounds like "Trans Siberian Orchestra" to me imo..