General Music Chat

Are amateur musicians posers with nothing for the pro's to learn from. Is posts on bandmix from amateurs a waste of the pro's time and space on this site, thereby should leave bandmix?

H3LL no everyone is welcome here regardless of musical ability, level of musicianship or anything else. A poser to me is someone that claims to be at a certain level and is not. We were all amateur at one time. I have never met a musician of any level including beginner that I couldn't learn from! Thats what makes music so AWESOME to me. I'll never be as good as I want to be NEVER!

I just wish we could keep this bm site geared toward music and away from politics as much as possible!

LOL

I dont know if I quailify as a pro or not, I always tell folks that Im semi-pro, however I havent played a gig in the last 4 years other than a benefit that I didnt get paid.

I think its give and take, I occasionally run into folks just starting to play that I guess would be considered an amateur and they do something that turns my head, so I try to listen with open ears to anyone that plays, whether I like thier style of music or not.

As far as this site, when folks ask questions about something that I have done at one point or another, or maybe about a guitar or amp setup Im familiar with I comment, and just share what I have done, or am doing.

I would imagine if someone is a real pro, in that thats all they do for a living they really wont get much from this site, and wont have time to do anything other than browse here.

I enjoy the site and have a lot of respect for the guys that are still playing out in front of people, that are making thier own music, or are trying to get out and play, I can do with out all the religion and politics, ussually in my case i just dont read them, cause it really makes no difference to me who you are religiously or politically. And I dont think it really matters to anyone on here what my views are on those subjects other than to try to convince me that I dont know what Im talking about! LOL sometimes that can be fun too.

Professional means that you derive your main income from the activity.

Amateur means that you don't.

A poser is someone who acts like they are involved in the activity at either level but is not.

People who never are in bands, never write and record music or play in front of an audience are posers.

Are amateur musicians posers with nothing for the pro's to learn from. Is posts on bandmix from amateurs a waste of the pro's time and space on this site, thereby should leave bandmix?

First off... REAL pros will learn anything, anywhere from anyone...They recognize that even a poser has a story to tell.

1) An amateur typically grapples with how to qualify his own (and other's ) role in the bigger Picture..

2) A Pro, doesn't give a sh*t anymore. He/she. just gets out there and does what he or she does. Either way, its done , it gets out there with fire and spirit.

3) Often, Pros and Amateurs are defined by income opportunities... Its common sense that one gets paid, and the other one doesn't. But I have witnessed a decade where known amateurs actually get paid and make a living. I have seen professionals starve just as long... The important thing comes down to during those times, who actually qualifies to get a raise...in a manner of speaking.

Before any realities set in, its most likely that a dream ensued first. I think of posers, as individuals who simply haven't advanced themselves beyond the dream stage. I don't judge them...but they aren't on the radar yet.

I was once a poser, Then I got me a guitar...
While still posing, learned 1st position and bar.
And as I drew in closer, to sounding somewhat par
there was no opposing..so I busted out my jar...

Sang you some song, Made me some coin
And it wasn't very long before I up and joined...

A band of other posers, who were learning how to walk
and while we was while exposing, stepping down the talk
So now I be composing, A little better than old par...
I am supposing , someday I'll use the words "Car" and "Far"..and make millions of dollars hehe hehe!

"I have witnessed a decade where known amateurs actually get paid and make a living."

This would make them professional if they make a living.

"I have seen professionals starve just as long..."

And this would make them amateurs wouldn't it? Or worse, posers. I am a professional programmer; if I get laid off and don't work for several years am I really a pro anymore? Or just a wannabe?

JimmyD

I'm a project manager and got laid off. Yet I remain a project manager because as I told a guy who first gave me such a position: "You gave me a position. God made me a manager." (not bragging - believe me)

I can't help being that - when I'm in bands I'm the leader more often than not. In the army I was put in charge of things before I got my first stripe. Just worked out that way.

(I'm going to take a wild guess that you taught yourself to program? I did and I know a lot of other musical types found a home in IT)

As to musical posers? I think of the kid in sixth grade who carries an empty guitar case to impress the chicks.

As PaperDog said - many of us at the point where we do it because we have to - but don't give a sh*t anymore about impressing anybody. The fact that we are all still playing is kinda nice since the train pulled out of illusion ville. Everybody seems to be in a band, or pushing a project of some sort, writing songs and so on...

To answer the poster's question more directly, JimmyD is quite correct - a pro is a working man. Amateur or hobbyist is not. People often jump across these lines pretty regularly. On this forum it seems that most have worked at some point or the other and few give a damn!

Note: there a multiple kinds of 'work' for pros. I worked much harder in original bands than in cover outfits and made less money. Then there are the studio guys and the orchestra folks et all.

Talbot

I consider myself an amateur due to my level of technical ability.
I approach my band issues with a professional attitude, be it playing my guitar or what have you.
I ask questions to learn.
I give opinions because it's fun and people are foolish enough to ask.
If I give something as a fact you can pretty much bank on it because I've either been there and done that or proven it for myself somewhere down the road.

Anyone not interested in my various comments because I'm an " amateur " is welcome and free to skip over my posts.
Though they could be screwing themselves out of some relevant information in the process.

We are at choice.

To me its a talent level. I think there are people that are born
extremely talented and at a young age can blow most people
around them away with there natural talent. They dont have
experience or many years of age. It would have nothing to do
with money. I judge people with my ears. Someone with 50
years playing to me might sound rather perfect yet boring to me.
Then I stumble on a 18 year old that inspires me and leves me in awe.
Amateur and Pro are labels I think, how their talent moves you
should be the real label. Talent exists at all ages at all levels.
I am not musicly talented but I can sing and write. I envy players,
yet I hear people compliment my voice. You hear a guitar, flute, fiddle,
drum, voice. Some do and some don't move you. Pro and Amateur
has nothing to do with that.[/b]

Are amateur musicians posers with nothing for the pro's to learn from.

No

Is posts on bandmix from amateurs a waste of the pro's time and space on this site, thereby should leave bandmix?

No

"I have witnessed a decade where known amateurs actually get paid and make a living."

This would make them professional if they make a living.

"I have seen professionals starve just as long..."

And this would make them amateurs wouldn't it? Or worse, posers. I am a professional programmer; if I get laid off and don't work for several years am I really a pro anymore? Or just a wannabe?

Given that you got years over me...in the music industry... If you don't get paid in the next 6 months, and I do get paid..Does that make me a pro and you an amateur? hmmmmm....

According to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional

The main criteria for professional include the following:

1. Expert and specialized knowledge in field which one is practicing professionally.
2. Excellent manual/practical and literary skills in relation to profession.
3. High quality work in (examples): creations, products, services, presentations, consultancy, primary/other research, administrative, marketing, photography or other work endeavors.
4. A high standard of professional ethics, behaviour and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.). The professional owes a higher duty to a client, often a privilege of confidentiality, as well as a duty not to abandon the client just because he or she may not be able to pay or remunerate the professional. Often the professional is required to put the interest of the client ahead of his own interests.
5. Reasonable work morale and motivation. Having interest and desire to do a job well as holding positive attitude towards the profession are important elements in attaining a high level of professionalism.
6. Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavour often engaged in by amateurs, having a particular profession as a permanent career, Engaged in by persons receiving financial return,
Appropriate treatment of relationships with colleagues. Consideration should be shown to elderly, junior or inexperienced colleagues, as well as those with special needs. An example must be set to perpetuate the attitude of one's business without doing it harm.
7. A professional is an expert who is master in a specific field.

There are both amateur posers and professional posers. My definition of a poser is somebody who doesn't deliver the goods they say they will deliver. Doesn't matter to me whether they are pro (as in making money) or amateur (as in not making money). Basically a poser is somebody who's full of crap. Everybody has their own opinion who is and who isn't a poser. If you want a certain someone bounced from the Bandmix forum because you think that someone is a poser, then that is a form of censorship. I believe it is up to each individual to decide who is or isn't a poser. There are people on here with all levels of musicianship and all levels of gigging for $ or not. Most everybody on the forum has interesting things to say. Frankly I've never even thought who on the Bandmix forum is a poser. It's irrelevant to me. If I happen to read a post I disagree with strongly or vice-versa and feel compelled to respond I do so, that's all.

Sounds like the people at wicki got a little carried away to me with that definition. They forgot to mention that a professional remembers to leave the toilet seat down. They touched on about everything else.

There are both amateur posers and professional posers. My definition of a poser is somebody who doesn't deliver the goods they say they will deliver. Doesn't matter to me whether they are pro (as in making money) or amateur (as in not making money). Basically a poser is somebody who's full of crap. Everybody has their own opinion who is and who isn't a poser. If you want a certain someone bounced from the Bandmix forum because you think that someone is a poser, then that is a form of censorship. I believe it is up to each individual to decide who is or isn't a poser. There are people on here with all levels of musicianship and all levels of gigging for $ or not. Most everybody on the forum has interesting things to say. Frankly I've never even thought who on the Bandmix forum is a poser. It's irrelevant to me. If I happen to read a post I disagree with strongly or vice-versa and feel compelled to respond I do so, that's all.

Well Said Bob.. I totally agree with your point about censorship. As for posers, I guess you summed it up pretty good...I have always thought a true poser was the person who boasted attributes and had no way of backing his/her claims. I still like to believe its the dream stage of people who aspire to be that which they prematurely claim... I kind of feel sorry for em.

Holy crap, Sonny Barger was on Sons of Anarchy last night.