General Music Chat

When you can't move your gear and won't pay someone to do it for ya.

Cheers,
Matt

all I gotta say about this one matt, is if you based this theory around my rig... we'd all be quitten.
i use a digi2112, with a halfler t3, thru a peavey classic 50/50.
that 5050 has got to be pushing 60lbs on it's own. it's in a rack case with wheels and it is still too much. add to that two of the heaviest 2x12 cabinets you've ever lifted and whala.... an excuse to have the drummer come to your house!

when are you too old? segovia was 90 or so when he died wasn't he? better chops than les paul(IMO) and at his age...
better question would be when are you too young.

What? What did you say? I 'm not shouting, what did you say? I can't hear you, what? As long as I can feel it ,I'll keep rocking! Go, Johnny Cool , GO GO! I agree!

Hey, Tessa, I listened to "I Feel like a Woman." Nice. I can picture you rocking in front of a whole roomful of dancing people.
Nice job.
How about giving a listen to my 'Molasses Blues?' I think you'll like it. My friend Julie Jazz sings.
I'd appreciate your opinion, because you're in the same age range as us; you just look younger.
And - you still feel it, and you're still rocking!

I think cellist Pablo Casals was older than dirt when he died. He could barely hold up his cello.

I'm afraid Im a classical poser cause I have no idea who the cellist is! I like mostly guitar related classical... or violin. I love guitar renditions of violin pieces... pagnini - now there's some cool classical!

Samic BFJ, thanks for the compliment and for listening to that song. I did that with my band recently. I gave a listen to 'Molasses Blues' and the others as well. I like it all! I can listen to that kind of groove all day. I have to find a couple of my originals to post. I have this one tune that I think you would appreciate cos it's similar in feel. Tomorrow, I'll listen again, cos tonite I couldn't crank it up without waking my husband! Funny, you said, "you're still rocking!" I need to catch some zzzz's right now! LOOOOONG DAY! I'll be back!

Tessa,
Thanks for listening to my stuff. I didn't expect you to listen to all 3 songs, as they are widely dissimilar styles:
- blues
- jazz
- Funny bar-room C&W

I'm glad I made them all 1.6Mb or less - You get 2 - 3 songs for the price of one.
You've be playing a long time, so if you like them, I guess there's hope for me after all.
Thanks, again.
I look forward to hearing any of your originals.

your too old to rock when you find out that your mails being forwarded to a change of address at the graveyard.

I guess you're too old when you catch yourself saying "Does it have to be that loud?"

For the record I'd like to point out that James Brown's corpse was moved around for like a month for spectators to view. Even dead and stiff he could draw a bigger crowd than us.

Seriously though, it seems everyone in here is in agreement that you're never really too old to rock provided rigormortis hasn't set in.
I'm gonna play the badguy for a moment however and show how someone COULD possibly MAYBE disagree...

Rumors and stories have floated around for years about Ozzy wetting himself on stage. Not that it happened a time or two...but regularly. If that's the case then maybe someone in such a situation should just bow out gracefully and retire. If its so bad they have to dump water on him to hide that it happened then he needs to pack it in because its just disgusting for a man to stand in front of thousands of people stewing in his own urine. The other option is DEPENDS ADULT DIAPERS, and that's just sad because unlike other artists, the diaper isn't just a clever gimmick!

Also consider that most of the people that could be too old to rock never rocked to start with.

This may be slightly askew of the intended meaning of the topic for alot of you but here's what I'm ultimately driving at. There's alot of people out there who are 40 or 50 and wondering if they're too old for their band or project to make it "big" in the music business. The answer is YES! I'm sorry but its true. If you're older, and had success as a younger person, then you can have success as an old person. A good example is Government Mule. No way that sound would sell if it weren't for the fact that it's an Allman Brothers spin off. It seems that whenever the age issue comes up everyone likes to point out their favorite old timer musicians like John Fogerty, Keith Richards, or Bob Dylan or Bonnie Raitt or Stevie Wonder ect. When did those people first achieve success though?

When they were young...

If you're middle aged or geriatric, then you have a very slim chance to achieve any real success as a performer in the popular music business (unless you allready have.) Be happy with your Saturday night gig or your Friday night Session player job and thank god for having the opportunity to do something you love. Give back to the younger generations whenever possible by teaching or guiding them. Just don't beat yourself up because you're 50 and pretty much have zero chance at success beyond the local gigs that bairly pay for the gas it took to drive there. If your idea of rocking is to put on a good show at Joe's fish and crab shack...then rock on old timer! If your idea of rocking is being on the mtv ...you're better off rocking a chair.

"you are young and life is long and there is time to kill today, then one day you find 10 years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun." -Pink Floyd

A good example is Government Mule. No way that sound would sell if it weren't for the fact that it's an Allman Brothers spin off.

-you couldn't be more wrong. I hate the allman brothers. lyrically they had nothing to say. govt mule (warren haynes) is a fine guitarist, a good singer, and a fantastic songwriter. I would point to songs like "Fallen Down", "I think you know what I mean", "In my life", "Towering fool"... "Soulshine" as evidence of some good writing, and a distinct style. Sounds like you just heard one song and summed him up... I've made the same mistake myself on various other bands- but I can tell you with certainty that I for one do not listen to govt mule based on the allman brothers experience.

It seems that whenever the age issue comes up everyone likes to point out their favorite old timer musicians like John Fogerty, Keith Richards, or Bob Dylan or Bonnie Raitt or Stevie Wonder ect. When did those people first achieve success though?

That's a pretty presumtive and unestablished claim. There is no evident cause-and-effect relationship there. I could just as easily explain the fact that these performers where discovered young by claiming they were decent musicians all along and were made great by being 'discovered'.

I have seen many musicians much better than 90% of what has "made it big"... young, old, black, white and I could point to that observation as evidence of my claim that your list of musicians were fair musicians at best -until they were discovered/promoted/doctored-up to be 'good musicians'.

It is at least conceivable that one could be just as great as anyone on your list and 'because of circumstance' never have been discovered. I could easily point to Kenny Rogers as proof of my claim. He was no "spring chicken" when his career really took off.

If you're middle aged or geriatric, then you have a very slim chance to achieve any real success as a performer in the popular music business (unless you allready have.) Be happy with your Saturday night gig or your Friday night Session player job and thank god for having the opportunity to do something you love.
Just don't beat yourself up because you're 50 and pretty much have zero chance at success beyond the local gigs that bairly pay for the gas it took to drive there.

So, surprise me by telling me which side of the too-old-or-not-too-old fence do you place yourself bluesman25? Cause I would bend down the age range you put on this concept of being too old to make it. I would bend it down to about 19 or 20 yrs old because I think your definition of "making it" is probably a definition american idol is employing when they seek their teen idols. Frankly, 14yr olds are the ones buying cd after cd of music, joining fan clubs, going to the shows... etc. That's who is "making it". Now there's a whole other venue for bands like the bodeans(whom I hate btw) who don't play for 14yr old girls. Yeah they aren't going to "make it big" like britany spears or christina agulara... but they are much more "successful" in terms of producing good music.
And now let me point out that a lot of that music is being produced "behind the scenes" by 5 year old studio musicians. Yeah, 5yr olds. They are all young... do you believe me? Surely the background vocalist/guitarist/bassist/keyboardest on the studio track was a teenager right?

So in summation, if your goal as a 20yr old plus is to "make it big like britany spears" then bluesman is right... you will never make it.
WAIT A MINUTE... YOU'D THINK WITH A NAME LIKE BLUESMAN YOU'D KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT THE BLUES... TELL US ALL... ARE WE ALL STILL TOO OLD TO MAKE IT AS BLUESMEN TOO?





If your idea of rocking is to put on a good show at Joe's fish and crab shack...then rock on old timer! If your idea of rocking is being on the mtv ...you're better off rocking a chair.

"you are young and life is long and there is time to kill today, then one day you find 10 years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun." -Pink Floyd[/quote]

lol..too old....still kickin at 59....Doin some juke joints in Vegas..still rock and roll..more rolling now days, but, love it..got my kids grown..now it is my turn to do what I really want to do..may not be a star..sheesh..hell that's ok..am doing some Casinos...ding, ding, ding..(damn the slot machines..lol)....met alot of the oldies still playin out here..and lovin the sunshine

I was just saying that's an argument someone could make...not reflective of my opinions. You aparently skipped over the part where I clearly stated that. Either way, stop jumping at chances to flame me.

There are lots and lots of people who found a bit of success at an older age without prior success. The majority of my "speculative" comments were about the relationship between age and major success in the popular music business (keep in mind "popular music" so we blues, jazz, bluegrass, folk, classical ect players really aren't included in this thought experiment.)

I certainly believe that no one is too old to rock till they are physically unable to do what it is they do.

However...

You're just wrong about G. Mule. They sell for the same reason as the skynyrd spinoffs...cashing in on former success via pre-established fan base. I'm not saying its bad music so please don't write a 500 word essay on how great Warren Haynes is as a lyricist. I can assure you however that there's a thousand bands out there that do the modern southern rock thing better. They are playing in a countless bars across this country. I've heard alot of truely amazing bands playing that style of music all over (try checking out drive by truckers) many of which were far more impressive musically. Nobody seems to discovers them though. Instead they discover Warren Haynes...who was allready discovered. It's like finding Jesus...I never even knew he was lost. You relate success to being discovered and not to age. Both are only part of a wide range of factors that attribute to ones success or lack thereof.

Here are some others in case you're interested.

Tallent
Location
Capitol
Image/Gimmicks
Experience
Connections
Work Ethic
Charisma
Age
Social and Cultural Climate
Popular Music Trends
Marketing/Promotion
Dieing at an opportune time
And countles more...

No particular one thing on this list is absolutely positively mandatory to achieve success. These are just things that people who know how to make money (yaknow...successful people) consider when going about the business of music...except maybe the dieing part...at least I hope not.

I'm terribly sorry that we live in an age discriminate world, but we do. How can anyone deny that? Just as its more difficult to break through in the entertainment industry as an older person, its also more difficult to afford car insurance for a teenager...who's not married, who doesn't make good grades or is driving a sports car. Many factors are considered for an insurance company to determine your level of risk vs your level of reward. Record companies are no different.

We all know your heart's in the right place for telling the 50 year old beer bellied guys in here that they have as much chance at achieving stardom as a younger rocker like Jack White. Saying something in a sincere way just doesn't make it true.

I've achieved my small amount of success (and boy do I mean small.) I'm content with my place in the music world and seek no more in my career than to advance personally as a musician. I would not presume to tell anyone that I am more capable of success than them. Nor would I ever tell anyone or even THINK that they are too old to make wonderful soul stirring music. I am simply pointing out that age and image are both vitally important factors in music marketing. To argue anything different is just naive.

Last I checked, the cutoff age for American Idol was 28. I guess age matters to somebody...

Don't blame me, blame the consumers. If you're still not convinced then let's ask billboard!

Top 10 on the rock charts:

1.) Linkin Park 2.) Papa Roach 3.) Plain White T's 4.) Incubus 5.) Breaking Benjamin 6.) Silversun Pickups 7.) The White Stripes 8.) Red Hot Chilli Peppers 9.) Chevelle 10.) The Bravery

Chilli Peppers are the oldest fogies on the list!

Top 10 for country is dominated by Sugarland, Brad Paisley, Rascall Flatts Carrie Underwood, Emerson Drive, and good ol' Alan Jackson who is the only one in his 40's.

Top 10 for pop is Maroon 5, Ne-Yo, T-Pain Featuring Yung Joc, Avril Lavigne, Timbaland Featuring Nelly Furtato and Justin Timberlake, Carrie Underwood, Ludacris, Akon, Bone Thugs N Harmony, and the old lady of the group Gwen Stefani!

Still think there's "no evident relationship?"

pwnt...

Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, and Cobain all died at 27. Maybe 28 is too old to rock.

A. do you cry 'flamer' whenever someone dissagrees with you?
I don't think I've said anything that would be a flame... and if I did I'm sorry.
B. let me point out that I am not dissagreeing with you about age... I did some research last night and many of my favorite musicians became 'famous' when they were in their 20's...
SRV 28
BBKing 26
Muddy Waters 26
the list goes on and on.
My point, was that you reasoning behind why they became famous so young was flawed. I acknowlege that age is certainly a factor for marketability... however, I think it is more likely to say that if you or I was any good -we'd have been recognized at an early age. Not because at an early age we would have been more marketable... but because if you or I were any good we would have been that good at age 18, and obviously neither of us have 'made it big' so therefore we can conclude that we aren't that good and therefore will likely never be that good.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and it is at least possible that one could evolve into someone that good.

AFA govt mule - again... I don't think you have heard more than one song... as I can tell by your comments that they sound like allman bros... does all southern rock sound like allman brothers to you? How bout the dixie dregs - does that sound like allman brothers?
A list of bands that suck is hardly a persuasive method of converting me to the idea that govt mule is only successful because of the allman brothers. I wan't you to convince me... but I don't think you have the ability.

BTW at the top you say this was speculative and not your opinion but then you say...
"I'm terribly sorry that we live in an age discriminate world, but we do." -sure sounds like your opinion to me...

I've said it b4 and I'll say it again... I try to reserve my biotchslappings for people who have the capacity to know when they are being slapped and know when they aren't... that said: I don't believe I have said anything any more offensive than you said in your initial post... and if you are offended by the fact that I don't simply bend to your uneducated summations of govt mule then: you might wanna build up your shell.
Have a nice day.
mv

oh yea, bonnie rait, john hiatt, tom waits - all 'made it big' at elder ages, so it is possible albeit unlikely.