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With our government: It seems like every time we have a "crisis" "solved" the most important outcome is which political party benefits the most. Actually solving the problem seems immaterial. The only commentary I'm hearing is whether the dems or repubs got the best of the deal. With the music industry: It's getting harder and harder for musicians to make a profit these days. Part and parcel with this horrible recession (I'm not sure we're in a Depression) is the almost complete drying up of places to play for a reasonable wage. I used to call on places in the 90's and get us a gig almost immediately. Those days are long gone apparently. Healthcare industry: Perhaps broken beyond repair. It's a mind boggling mess. Horror stories abound. Completely repealing ISN'T the answer. I've got the answer but the entrenched lawyers and pharmaceutical companies who have us by the testicles will not let go. US energy policy: Again perhaps broken beyond repair. Energy saving solutions have been available for DECADES. Why they haven't been fully implemented is a matter (again) of who has you by your family jewels. We need to look back at a time when life was good in this country and somehow reproduce the conditions that made it good. More legislation, more red tape, more legal involvement ISN'T the answer. The main reason (IMO) we're in this mess is the loss of our manufacturing base. Americans need to buy American whenever possible. Companies and divisions of companies that have vacated America should be boycotted IMO. To walk down aisle after aisle in a store and see almost everything made in China breaks my heart. (Sorry for the mainly non-musical post)

Bob I think just about everyone feels the same way. The kids were left guarding the cookie jar and they are taking whatever they can. It’s a continuos circus of lies and deceit, it’s to the point of numb predictability. The two parties fight over the remains of our republic, like some cheap trophy. It will always be what’s best for them, what’s best for their party. As you point out any consideration to those they supposedly represent, only becomes important when it’s time to gloat over how they got over on the other side. That helps us how?

I know, Bob. Cisco and I were talking this week and many of the places he used to play have gone or have been converted to sports bars - y'know those places that have a big TV screen in every available bare wall space and if they have a band everyone gives you the stink eye because they want to talk with their friends rather than listen to you.

I'm in the process of rethinking my whole approach. It's quite daunting really.

Chaeya

fisherman bob wrote:With our government: It seems like every time we have a "crisis" "solved" the most important outcome is which political party benefits the most. Actually solving the problem seems immaterial. The only commentary I'm hearing is whether the dems or repubs got the best of the deal. With the music industry: It's getting harder and harder for musicians to make a profit these days. Part and parcel with this horrible recession (I'm not sure we're in a Depression) is the almost complete drying up of places to play for a reasonable wage. I used to call on places in the 90's and get us a gig almost immediately. Those days are long gone apparently. Healthcare industry: Perhaps broken beyond repair. It's a mind boggling mess. Horror stories abound. Completely repealing ISN'T the answer. I've got the answer but the entrenched lawyers and pharmaceutical companies who have us by the testicles will not let go. US energy policy: Again perhaps broken beyond repair. Energy saving solutions have been available for DECADES. Why they haven't been fully implemented is a matter (again) of who has you by your family jewels. We need to look back at a time when life was good in this country and somehow reproduce the conditions that made it good. More legislation, more red tape, more legal involvement ISN'T the answer. The main reason (IMO) we're in this mess is the loss of our manufacturing base. Americans need to buy American whenever possible. Companies and divisions of companies that have vacated America should be boycotted IMO. To walk down aisle after aisle in a store and see almost everything made in China breaks my heart. (Sorry for the mainly non-musical post)

1) Lets Start by getting rid of these f**k cell phones and I-PODs. Nobody is that important that they need to be reached at all hours. People in bars might start noticing each other more and revive the art of wholesome conversation in a social setting.

2) These f**k kids today (LOL!) . They act like everything they do wrong can somehow be fixed with a reset button. I say, game creators should program code that destroys a PC whenever the player does something stupid...like log on to the game...

3) Get rid of these god-damn SUVs... What the hell!!.... You'd think these drivers had a penis complex by the way they buy these vehicles up . They guzzle gas, they take up two spaces everywhere they park; and I always thought that if you want your penis to look 'bigger', then you buy a smaller car, (not a larger one...)

4) The internet as a whole has destroyed the critical elements of social and Brick & Mortar market prowess in America. Musicians can't gig like they used to, cause all the acts have been forced onto the web for free. Seriously, a poor man today can produce a full blown video, grab a million hits and become famous, all without the benefit of a limo and a mansion. Nor does he actually have to have talent. (I blame part of this on the Hip-Hop production scene.. they literally let some serious criminals into the lime light. )

5) In The old days , you had to be above cut and fairly clean just to get noticed. The new mantra is so banal..."You can be and do whatever you want to be and do" And we know that's a load of sh*t. I look around me and see a lot of mother f**k, who really need to step down and out of the way...cause they are BLOCKING the paths of the real talents who are trying to grow and get in.


Start with these for things, and maybe there is a chance we can get back to a place where the real articles once existed.

You know what? Since the end of WW2 when we emerged as the world superpower militarily and economically we’ve been pushing the rest of the world to appreciate the benefits of democracy and capitalism, guess what we’ve succeeded, those countries that have been convinced, influenced and forced to live like us now they are big consumers of the same goods that one time only Americans could afford to buy, not only they can afford to buy these good they can also produced them and sell them to us and these countries have done it without waging 2 or 3 wars at the same time or maintaining costly military bases all over the globe

Until few decades ego what Americans consumed was produced in the USA (Mostly) now I don’t know the statistics but I venture to say that 80% of what we consume now is produced abroad.

The scenario becomes bleaker when considering that the material needed to produce these goods are also needed by these other countries thus driving the cost up, oil, grain, for example.

American manufactures, entrepreneurs, multinationals and anybody who makes money in manufacturing and selling consumer goods have packed their tends and moved to greener pastures or cheaper places where there are no unions, controls, cheaper labor or stringent government regulations although I believe that some regulations are needed.

So people get used to it coz is gonna get worse before it levels off, what are we experiencing now is a long and painful process called the declining of America. What this means is although our way of life will not fall (I hope) below other countries standard, it will never regain the prestige and the purchasing power enjoided by our parents and grandparents.

If I could turn this post into a song I’d play in E major volume around 11 with crunchy heavy sound.

Dog, I'm with you, but I need a SUV. Seriously, if you're a musician or do markets and faires like I do, you can't survive without one. Because ours is down, Cisco is screwed if he ever had to bring our PA along with everything else. With faires, I need a truck big enough to put all my wares plus have room for the kids and stuff.

I agree, not everyone needs an SUV, but many of us have them for a good reason.

Chaeya

This too shall pass.

Wow you know this is going to sound sappy. For all the argument that takes place here, I wish the majority of citizens thought like you folks. Even the more extreme opinions are open to reason. It just raises so much more doubt, about the actual accuracy of our representation. Some great points expressed here, are they unique to this forum?

lalong wrote:Wow you know this is going to sound sappy. For all the argument that takes place here, I wish the majority of citizens thought like you folks. Even the more extreme opinions are open to reason. It just raises so much more doubt, about the actual accuracy of our representation. Some great points expressed here, are they unique to this forum?

Not at all.

Chaeya wrote:Dog, I'm with you, but I need a SUV. Seriously, if you're a musician or do markets and faires like I do, you can't survive without one. Because ours is down, Cisco is screwed if he ever had to bring our PA along with everything else. With faires, I need a truck big enough to put all my wares plus have room for the kids and stuff.

I agree, not everyone needs an SUV, but many of us have them for a good reason.

Chaeya

Oh I totally get that Chaeya... I'm talking about the knuckle heads that gotta have one to fit in with their yuppie joneses and for no other reason..

PaperDog wrote:

Chaeya wrote:Dog, I'm with you, but I need a SUV. Seriously, if you're a musician or do markets and faires like I do, you can't survive without one. Because ours is down, Cisco is screwed if he ever had to bring our PA along with everything else. With faires, I need a truck big enough to put all my wares plus have room for the kids and stuff.

I agree, not everyone needs an SUV, but many of us have them for a good reason.

Chaeya

Oh I totally get that Chaeya... I'm talking about the knuckle heads that gotta have one to fit in with their yuppie joneses and for no other reason..

WTF???

Cell phones are a personal choice. I don't have one, I don't want one, but I think that those who want them should be able to use them. Only not while doing things that might cause someone harm if you are distracted while using one.


Telling people that you want them to drive what you want them to drive?
Where's that at Dog? This used to be a free country. Why does it make a bit of difference what they drive? They pay for the gas and the other expenses involved. We hardly need more big brother attitudes imposed on us.

The internet has made it possible for citizens to be able to barter with local stores. Many here sell for the same prices found on the Internet. At one time they were able to rob you with higher fixed pricing, knowing that you had to purchase from them or travel to get a good price. No longer. High taxes and free shipping have caused attitudes in local markets to change. Now the greedy gov is going to tax all Internet purchases. That will cause more local business, but it may also cause you to decide you don't need it that bad. Some states tax you to death with their sales taxes. And no one forces anyone to purchase anything on the Internet in the first place.

Make yourself a meat suit and get noticed. Ga Ga did. But she can also sing. Shes not my choice of entertainment, but someone obviously wants that or she wouldn't be making the big bucks. When you have the attitude that you are a money maker, and others see you as a good musical investment, they will see YOUR million hit video and come knocking at your door. But maybe you prefer the government to decide who can play, what they can play, the genre of songs they can write, and whatever type of band THEY decide you can join.... if any band at all. That appears to be where your suggestion would lead in the end.

Just about everything you listed is an attack of personal choice. I'm not sure if you get it, but America was the land of the free. No other citizens in the world have had as much freedom of choice as Americans have had.

Just for the record, first they take personal choices from them. And when they are through taking their freedom of choice, they will come after yours.
I'm sure glad no one died and made you king. I want to keep what few choices I can still make that are not under government dictate.

No SUV for me, no cell phones for me, but when you try to impose your dictates on others you are dictating away your own freedom of choice. Or haven't you figured that out yet? Every choice taken from someone else, every liberty taken from someone else, every possession taken from someone else, will eventually come knocking at your door to take away yours.

Every generation has their music. Every generation wants to choose their own stars. Our parents had theirs, their parents had theirs, you have yours, and the younger generation have theirs. No skin off my nose, after all, I can listen to what I want to listen to, I can play what I want to play. I am a musician therefore I play for the music, and for my own satisfaction,not for the imaginary pot of gold at the end of the imaginary rainbow. If I were the only person left in the world, I would still enjoy playing my guitar. Music is a gift to the one to whom it is given. If there is no satisfaction to making music unless you can cram it down someones throat, you have missed the best part of having the creativity and personal satisfaction of being a musician.

Rant over.

Bob, If you were to run, we'd vote for you. Cheaya, I love you and Cisco as one,You might try that approach. Paper, your writing skills are improving along with your insight. My approach is that because we can tolerate an absolute paper trail of identification should go farther than just doing it for anti-terrorism reasons. Everything sold in America should be conspicuously marked to which the country it was made. The candidates that have already announced their running in 2012 by selling t-shirts as advertisements of their intentions. T-shirts are great advertising tools- of intentions. Most of those have bought t-shirts from other countries. Maybe we don't have t-shirt technology. I will not buy from fruit of the loom anymore (Honduras). American , my ass. Americans assume that because we can read it, it is American made, then buy it. Watch what you buy in a weeks time. If you buy all American, it is due to a couple of things A) your conscientious about nationalism, B) you look closely at tags/identification, and C) know you don't have a right to bitch about who the president is if you don't vote any more than you have a right to bitch about America's economy if you don't watch what you buy.

Oh Slacker... You jis opened up a can o whupp-ass! LOL!

Cell phones are a personal choice. I don't have one, I don't want one, but I think that those who want them should be able to use them. Only not while doing things that might cause someone harm if you are distracted while using one.

Come talk to me when the next asshole on the road side-swipes your brand new SUV cause he was texting. We got his personal choices covered.... Now, how about yours??

Telling people that you want them to drive what you want them to drive?
Where's that at Dog? This used to be a free country. Why does it make a bit of difference what they drive? They pay for the gas and the other expenses involved. We hardly need more big brother attitudes imposed on us.

Where in my post did I actually tell others what to drive? I was intensely critical about their 'choices" but nowhere did I say they "have" to give em up. (Albeit I suggested they should) In fact My whole post is a major criticism on the mindset of many younger people in America today... Basically, they have been give the freedom to exercise their rights and to choose... and they have royally f**k up MY rights in the process. I don't know what America you come from, But in my America, I was taught one persons rights end where another persons's rights begin, and so on. It seems YOur rights and mine are getting steam rolled. Do you disagree?

The internet has made it possible for citizens to be able to barter with local stores. Many here sell for the same prices found on the Internet. At one time they were able to rob you with higher fixed pricing, knowing that you had to purchase from them or travel to get a good price. No longer. High taxes and free shipping have caused attitudes in local markets to change. Now the greedy gov is going to tax all Internet purchases. That will cause more local business, but it may also cause you to decide you don't need it that bad. Some states tax you to death with their sales taxes. And no one forces anyone to purchase anything on the Internet in the first place. Make yourself a meat suit and get noticed. Ga Ga did. But she can also sing. Shes not my choice of entertainment, but someone obviously wants that or she wouldn't be making the big bucks. When you have the attitude that you are a money maker, and others see you as a good musical investment, they will see YOUR million hit video and come knocking at your door. But maybe you prefer the government to decide who can play, what they can play, the genre of songs they can write, and whatever type of band THEY decide you can join.... if any band at all. That appears to be where your suggestion would lead in the end.

The internet has made it possible to invade your privacy, so that more of your rights can be taken away or hijacked from you. You wanna know how they mobilize it... .They give your neighbors free cell phones and SUV's to refer you . Ever wonder what those 'like' buttons are used for? As for taxes...Sorry, its already creeping into the net. Soon you will pay state sales taxes, etc etc... But if we behave, On Sundays they give us Gift Coupons for free Tupperware at Walmart (Who by the way, does less internet biz than Sears) .

Just about everything you listed is an attack of personal choice. I'm not sure if you get it, but America was the land of the free. No other citizens in the world have had as much freedom of choice as Americans have had.

The Irony.... It is indeed a verbal attack on personal choice. Feel free at any time to call the Political-Correctness Police on me.

Just for the record, first they take personal choices from them. And when they are through taking their freedom of choice, they will come after yours.
I'm sure glad no one died and made you king. I want to keep what few choices I can still make that are not under government dictate.

If I were king, your life would improve drastically. For starters I'd have a firing squad for pharmacuetical sales reps and research grant writers. I guarantee you that within a week, your Glucosomine Condroiten (Ha ha!) would only cost you about 3 dollars and (no more insurance fraud)

No SUV for me, no cell phones for me, but when you try to impose your dictates on others you are dictating away your own freedom of choice. Or haven't you figured that out yet? Every choice taken from someone else, every liberty taken from someone else, every possession taken from someone else, will eventually come knocking at your door to take away yours.

This is a moot paragraph at this stage...

Every generation has their music. Every generation wants to choose their own stars. Our parents had theirs, their parents had theirs, you have yours, and the younger generation have theirs. No skin off my nose, after all, I can listen to what I want to listen to, I can play what I want to play.

I dont disagree with ya here... But My parents listened to Glen Miller and managed to preserve My rights in the mix...
Why is It I gotta hear the dumb-ass upstairs play his mariachi practice in my ear? There is is an old christian proverb...or maybe I got it off a box of Capn Crunch...anyway to paraphrase..If it offends thy neighbor, do it away from them...

I am a musician therefore I play for the music, and for my own satisfaction,not for the imaginary pot of gold at the end of the imaginary rainbow. If I were the only person left in the world, I would still enjoy playing my guitar. Music is a gift to the one to whom it is given. If there is no satisfaction to making music unless you can cram it down someones throat, you have missed the best part of having the creativity and personal satisfaction of being a musician.

Again I agree...Why must the neighbor upstairs cram his bad mariachi down my throat? Why Must I relinquish and give up my parking space to somebody who's SUV infringes on a safe parking arrangement and takes up two spaces. (And I still have to pay for my space) Why must I double my risk of safety on the road because some desperate housewife has a need to feel important and wants to chat up business while flying down the road?

Gee Dog,

If that was a can of whoop ass, you better go back to whoop ass school. Reading comprehension would be a good start. This is what I said, I'll keep it out of the paragraph so you don't get distracted by the other words.


"Come talk to me when the next asshole on the road side-swipes your brand new SUV cause he was texting. We got his personal choices covered.... Now, how about yours??"

I said:
"Only not while doing things that might cause someone harm if you are distracted while using one. " That obviously would include driving while texting or talking on a cell phone.

Why were you whining about SUV's then? They were on your dislike list?

[b]My brand new SUV? Hmmm comprehension problem again. Now isn't this what I said?

"No SUV for me, no cell phones for me, but when you try to impose your dictates on others you are dictating away your own freedom of choice."[/b]

No. If you were king I believe you would be a tyrant from what I have read in some posts. You speak quite often of what should be in respect to other peoples choices that you do not like.

We are musicians living in a dog eat dog world. (Sorry about that last one) You work with the cards you are dealt in life. The world doesn't ever change for the better, the world is often unfair to some while befitting others, some climb to the top through clawing tooth and nail, others have everything given to them. All is fair in life. When you die, you are always spoken of and being a far better musician than you really were. Look foreword to that.

Slacker G wrote:Gee Dog,
No. If you were king I believe you would be a tyrant from what I have read in some posts. You speak quite often of what should be in respect to other peoples choices that you do not like.

In a one-dimensional world, (no matter how well we can read or not) You are probably right about the tyrant thing. But In the real world, the truth be told, I am NOTHING like what you think I am, based on what other posts you have read...
That there underscores the problem of Internet communication with strangers in a forum, conducive to opinion making. For all you know, I'm a 2 foot hobbit in a wheel chair, complaining about why the world doesn't have enough crutches and step ladders. But at the end of the day... We manage to invoke and arouse sentiments, simply by casting 1s and 0s .

As for other peoples rights, I used the SUV to illustrate a common object of many peoples' desire...
If you really want to espouse the careful reading of words, you might actually detect on the 2nd round, that I'm not criticizing people's "freedoms of Choice". Instead I am stomping all over their sense of judgement.

So many people and how they mange their "freedom of choices" reminds me of that joke about the guy who owns a camel in the desert ... Because he hasn't had a woman in years, he entertains the idea of pleasuring himself with the camel ...Then, along comes this beautiful woman, who runs to him in haste and cries out for help and refuge , as she is chased by a band of evil thugs. She offers him 'anything' he wants in exchange for his help.... And In his infinite inability to manage his freedom of choice, he says to her..."Ok I'll help you, but first you gotta help me get this camel on its knees..."

Every frigging day we are surrounded by idiots like this.... They are given power, authority and they blow up the world, They destroy and they desecrate. THEIR Freedom of choices IMPOSE upon and DEVALUATE YOUR freedom of choices. That is precisely what the constitution attempts to avoid.


According to your theory of 'Fairness in life...' If I am a tyrant, then shake hands with the baddest one-dimensional equalizer you'll ever meet in this universe....

Now where did I put my cane....?:wink: