Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

Sorry, just complaining in general. Seems whenever a bunch of musicians get together, the same old stuff always crops up. I "jammed" with these guys 5 times. They are all in there late 40s or better. They are all really good people.
Tuning, guitar tuners are a great reference point. Not the end all. Your guitar is out of tune and you have to be able to recognize it and tune it LIVE. Mathematically musical tones are a very SCREWED up system.
Volumes, You have to control them, to make a musical statement.
POT, The bass player is actually pretty good until he does a few hits, then his creativity goes BYE BYE.
The Drummer is a really good guy. This is what really hurts, he doesn't have the physical ability to keep up. He has the the talent.
Band dynamics.
The guitarist has been friends with the bass player for twenty years or more.

This is all just to say it is very hard to find the right people to work with.
I have only covered a teeeny bit of this.

Sorry,,,, this was not a political or religious post.

Not to be ugly Glen but maybe you need to look into the mirror, if your having problems maybe its you.

I know stepping in with others is tough, especially if theyve known and played together for years, ones probably better than the other, but they come as a pair, so you cant get into that.

Now a drummer that cant physically make an evening is a problem, I know a few of these guys, they can play great but just cant do it. Im fortunate that the drummer I play with also races motocross and even at 50 yrs old is still in great shape. I think the strength of your drummer ultimately dictates how good a band can be, If you dont have a strong foundation, its just not and never will work. Dont know if that can be changed.

Another thing Glen is what do these guys want to really do? I mean Ive gotten with people who just want to hang out and play at home, they have no intentions of gigging although they may say so when you talk, but if they arent making any real efforts to do that, then in my mind actions speak louder than words.

Glen what I did a few years ago before I got back with my old band, and thank you tiny baby jesus for that. I made a list of what my prioritys were before I even considered committing to playing with people, you know alist of deal breakers, if I sensed or saw something I didnt like then I would be nice and just walk. I wouldnt cop an attitude cause at our age the guys that are actively playing are a small group of people and they tend to break up and move onto other things, so my other advice is dont burn any bridges with them. Ive recently gotten a few calls from folks that I just jammed a time or two with that have formed now groups and are now looking for someone, and they remember that I was basically, cool, came in and did my parts, didnt blow the ceiling off with volume, didnt get too f**k up to play, and have some experience that maybe some of them didnt have. Just keep the doors open cause over time these people come around to other things.


Good Luck, I do know how frustrating this can be

Keep On Rockin

Everyone is an individual thus they are going to try and do something different unless you gently coax them into the slot.

Diplomacy is a great way to try and ease people into what you want out of them without making them uncomfortable. I wish i knew how to do exactly this as you may know, it's not my strong suit.

Capt Scott wrote:Everyone is an individual thus they are going to try and do something different unless you gently coax them into the slot.

Diplomacy is a great way to try and ease people into what you want out of them without making them uncomfortable. I wish i knew how to do exactly this as you may know, it's not my strong suit.

What he said, as long as all JW said applies first.

The boyz tolerate me having A cold one when we practice first off because ... well, it's my place.
Secondly because I don't let it interfere with what we are doing.

I got nothing against a cold one, nor even a tight roll as long as there is responsibility attached.
If getting high and making noise is the priority and not being a working band ( if that is your goal ) then I'd walk.
Unless a compromise can be reached, perhaps one night a month we'll just jam and y'all can drink and blow all you want.
The other sessions ... we work.

Yeah good advice above, so I'll just go out on the bitch limb and say you just got yourself a group of lame motherfuckas. The drummer's timing sucks and the other two are just Lame. They've been playing for 20 years, they're like a lot of musicians, probably played a bunch of bars - hell, most people don't know if the timing sucks, someone's guitar is out of tune and so on. They're partying getting drunk and if they hear "Sweet Home Alabama" and it sounds reasonably like the record, they're happy. So they get used to making mistakes and anyone who attempts to come in and try to tell them different, they cop an attitude or shrug their shoulders and say "everyone else likes it." Because every else doesn't give a sh*t and they're too lazy and lame to bother getting better.

Now if you think this has potential, lose the drummer and try to snap some inspiration in the other two to do something worthwhile.

It isn't just with you, when Cisco was out on the blues jam circuit, there was enough ego and drama to rival my daughter's middle school environment, and most of these guys were just lame. The ones worth their salt got the heck away from all of it and took their bands to the next level. And these were men in their 40s 50s and 60s.

Sorry, I just don't have the patience for bullshit. I yelled at my guys last week to turn it down, my bass player is half deaf. I love having a walking stick, it really does get my point across.

Chaeya

I just love the ol bitch limb.

Chaeya wrote:Yeah good advice above, so I'll just go out on the bitch limb and say you just got yourself a group of lame motherfuckas. The drummer's timing sucks and the other two are just Lame. They've been playing for 20 years, they're like a lot of musicians, probably played a bunch of bars - hell, most people don't know if the timing sucks, someone's guitar is out of tune and so on. They're partying getting drunk and if they hear "Sweet Home Alabama" and it sounds reasonably like the record, they're happy. So they get used to making mistakes and anyone who attempts to come in and try to tell them different, they cop an attitude or shrug their shoulders and say "everyone else likes it." Because every else doesn't give a sh*t and they're too lazy and lame to bother getting better.


Chaeya

Yeah everyone is right. I was just pointing out all the things that can happen. I even left the mesa home and brought a little roland amp to try and keep the volumes down. JW can tell you, the perceived volumes of a boogie can screw up everyone, they cut hard. Instead I just got run over by a fender twin. No big deal, but it did have the needed affect of bringing down volumes.

Chaeya, I put up your quote because the funny thing about this is finding the right people to work with can be a daunting task in any field of endeavor. I'm not trying to put these guys down. Just to point out all the little things that come up. last month I met a great young drummer,unfortunately he was selling a drum kit to support his habit. Sad.

This was just a stupid little comment on finding those really good players that understand all this. In the mean time I haven't been playing for a "while" since Mark died. He sucked as a bass player, but you don't know what you lost till it's gone.

This is how funny it can be. These guys actually see dramatic improvement and the one original song they do sounds better than ever because someone is actually doing backing rhythms. BAHAHAHAHAHA.

Glen

I had a war song I wanted to flog a couple years ago so I hooked up with some garage band guys who ultimately couldn't play the song. (sigh)

I play a five string bass when I'm bassin' and they didn't like that. The guitar player nearly broke my remaining ear drum and the drummer finally revealed his true goal - to play some sixties tribute stuff. That's when I bailed.

I say this because I played with those guys longer than good sense would suggest simply because playing with someone is (usually) better than playing with no one at all. Plus they had their moments.

Maybe you could ride this while figuring how to sort the wheat from the chaff and looking for alternatives. One tactic you can use with guys like that is discipline, beat or cajol them into learning one tune really well - and preferably something they will really get a kick out of hearing themselves do.

I know exactly what you mean about guys playing in a bar band for 20 years and getting jaded. I've been running into guys like that. No fire.

Talbot

GlenJ wrote:Sorry, just complaining in general. Seems whenever a bunch of musicians get together, the same old stuff always crops up. I "jammed" with these guys 5 times. They are all in there late 40s or better. They are all really good people.
Tuning, guitar tuners are a great reference point. Not the end all. Your guitar is out of tune and you have to be able to recognize it and tune it LIVE. Mathematically musical tones are a very SCREWED up system.
Volumes, You have to control them, to make a musical statement.
POT, The bass player is actually pretty good until he does a few hits, then his creativity goes BYE BYE.
The Drummer is a really good guy. This is what really hurts, he doesn't have the physical ability to keep up. He has the the talent.
Band dynamics.
The guitarist has been friends with the bass player for twenty years or more.

This is all just to say it is very hard to find the right people to work with.
I have only covered a teeeny bit of this.

Sorry,,,, this was not a political or religious post.

HEY MAN !! it seems like to me there are more people willing to brag they are musicians on here than there are actual performers that are serious about playing good music. Sometimes i'd like to smack some of these guys that have talent and do nothing with it !!

HEY MAN !! it seems like to me there are more people willing to brag they are musicians on here than there are actual performers that are serious about playing good music. Sometimes i'd like to smack some of these guys that have talent and do nothing with it !![/quote]

Yeah I agree, but in the end it's no big deal.
My gig is I know what it's like to step in and play with people that have the magical power to make anything sound great.

Oh well I guess I'm gonna have to do it the hard way. I've been down this road before, and the only problem with it is when peoples egos start to show and they think they are soooo much better than they really are.

I have an extreme problem now I don't know what to do about.
Some of my "Live recordings" have more feeling than anything than anything I can duplicate in studio. I need some GREAT players to give me that intangible input and performance. That is the funny thing about music, it is all about people sharing a part of their souls. Not just notes and rhythms. I know when a player is giving me this. I've been there before.

That's how right you are man!

GlenJ wrote:Sorry, just complaining in general. Seems whenever a bunch of musicians get together, the same old stuff always crops up. I "jammed" with these guys 5 times. They are all in there late 40s or better. They are all really good people.
Tuning, guitar tuners are a great reference point. Not the end all. Your guitar is out of tune and you have to be able to recognize it and tune it LIVE. Mathematically musical tones are a very SCREWED up system.
Volumes, You have to control them, to make a musical statement.
POT, The bass player is actually pretty good until he does a few hits, then his creativity goes BYE BYE.
The Drummer is a really good guy. This is what really hurts, he doesn't have the physical ability to keep up. He has the the talent.
Band dynamics.
The guitarist has been friends with the bass player for twenty years or more.

Its like trying to work any Polygamist relationship, except in this case nobody gets the benefits (And yet, somebody gets F'd)

But seriously, organizing a band is like herding cats. The problem (as I see it) in most cases is that everyone in a band effort approaches it with huge individual agendas. One guy absolutely believes it should be done a certain way and another guy absolutely believes he saw Elvis at 7-11, and so on. In fact , In-cohesiveness is the number one killer (Be it entertainment, Business or Warfare) that destroys a team.

I have observed that somebody has to take the lead role and somebody has to acquiesce. Many times you get too many "alpha dogs" into the mix and that is a disaster.

Glen, In your situation, it sounds like some of the members aren't quite "grown-up " yet, even though they are in their 40s. What I mean is, don't they get that it takes serious commitment/with good attitude about it?

As for sound-checks, well that's really hard to pin on individuals. I know I've tuned up to cherry pitch and lo and behold, it still comes off like a Mercedes-Cambridge outtake, every so often. I agree, during live, Mid stroke of song there is no excuse to not tune by ear...
I actually had the distinct privilege of witnessing Rory Gallagher pop a string during a song, whereby, the band immediately took over, he kept singing and threaded a new string, tuned it and got back on the song in under 2 minutes (by my estimation) I don't think he ever unplugged while he did it.

As for Pot./Doobies... Jeez ... 40 years old? , What's left to prove? I know this...it makes one slow headed over the long haul. And apparently its effected your bass player... Kind of embarrassing, really)

Tell the drummer to work upper body at the Gym... Three times a week at least, and for a couple of months... Also, get any material he's struggling with, on tape or drive and insist that he practice on them min of 4- 6 hours a day. (If he has that kind of time). If he's a smoker, and he's forty, and he's having this kind of trouble, he's pretty much f**k, (COPD). Its NEVER too late to quit cigarettes, if that is the case. With time, he'll get his oxygen back (and his strength)

Now if I am wrong about any of this, keep one detail in mind... I have offered the suggestions, under the guise of someone who might direct a band accordingly... In other words, take on the role of Padre if you must... (Pete Townshend had to, for his band ;D

Glen, Do you where shorts all the time?[/b]