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The Rednecks in here will love this, but it's pretty much the way it is. There is an active class was going on at the moment and the rich are winning. They have a large portion of ignorant, misinformed people campaigning for them and it always helps when you own the media.
Rant on..... I really don't care what a lot of you have to say. This is for anyone who wants it.

: http://www.truth-out.org/bill-moyers-mo ... dirty64766

Now I'm going t go play my guitar.....

Good read.

When we all get hungry enough......we'll have no choice but to Eat The Rich

Through out history every so often the working class has had to "eat the rich" as it were to restore the balance between "classes".
An simple analogy would be the over tension of an rubber band.
Eventually it will break and snap back to it's original position, violently.
I believe that technological advances under the control of the "ruling class" have prevented this from happening at what could be considered it's appropriate or normal interval of time.
The next "snap" will not be geographically localized as many of the previous resets. It will be global ... and catastrophic.

You wanna talk wage repression? Musicians make the same dollar amount today, or LESS, than they did 40 years ago. I'm not talking "2010 dollars," either! It would seem that the rest of the country's jobs are following suit, unless they simply get shipped out, eh?

When I moved here, in '84, I got a job with a vending machine manufacturer. In 1991, they decided that wages for employees, here in WV, had gotten out of hand, & they packed up & moved to SC, where the starting wage was going to be $6 less an hour. This occurred, of course, after they had been bought out by a huge multinational firm.

This "free market at work" theory is doing nothing but putting the money, AND the jobs, into the mega-corporations' control. There are becoming fewer & fewer "American corp's," as they are bought out by these firms.

The co that owns my wife's co also owns Toys R US, Dollar General, electronics co's, concrete co's, paper & packaging outfits, aviation co's, the list is staggering. It's getting to the point that, if you should do something to get fired from a co, you won't EVER get work again, because ALL the other jobs in your area may be owned by the same huge outfit.

Other troubling new trends include: refusal to hire ppl because of weight, or smoking, or pre-existing health conditions, or a 30+ old misdemeanor (I recently dealt with that one), co's REQUIRING ppl to behave, wear, & ingest what the CO demands, even o their off-time. How much control should we allow a co to have over us, just for the "priveledge" of working there?

Don't like it? Think you have innumerable choices? Think again, if you're in retail, cuz 60-80% of the stores in your area could be owned by 2, maybe 3, megacorps. Restaurants? Once again, with the exception of the single unit outfits (which are rapidly becoming a thing of the past), think 3-4 major corp's own most of 'em. Manufacturers? We have so few in our area that that career path is locked up.

Okay, you say - the answer is simple - get a degree! Go back to the article...besides, how you gonna get it without the big bucks it costs...get a grant? & what do you live on in the interim? The ppl who started working in middle class manufacturing jobs in this country anytime before 2000 are being phased out, economically. Products cost the same, while the cost of production decreases, & the profits go to the shareholders, & the ppl are squirming & begging & taking any number of decreases in wages & self respect just to survive. We are being enslaved, & many of us think it's "the American way," when, in truth, there is NOTHING "American" about it, including where the profits go.

Who was closer in their horrible predictions? Huxley or Orwell? Huxley described a decadent future, in his novel, Brave New World, where everyone had everything, & yet was still controlled by the gov't, to the point of being forced to commit depraved acts. Orwell, in 1984, described a future where the ppl were watched by their technologies & controlled by a corp-run gov't, basically. I don't want either future for me & mine, folks.

philbymon wrote: Who was closer in their horrible predictions? Huxley or Orwell? Huxley described a decadent future, in his novel, Brave New World, where everyone had everything, & yet was still controlled by the gov't, to the point of being forced to commit depraved acts. Orwell, in 1984, described a future where the ppl were watched by their technologies & controlled by a corp-run gov't, basically. I don't want either future for me & mine, folks.

Huxley, Orwell, and Kafka were all partially right. Enjoy your capitalist paradise, comrade, where decisions are made for you and the "free" market gives you the illusion of choice.

The answer is not a simple one Phil. Its as different as everyone of our current, personal situations. But these answers are only a band-aid. I think, when the dust settles, there will be a major downward mobility that people will have to learn to live with, unless they act out in one way or another. The 60's generation of middle-class youth dropped out of society to underscore their beliefs. What is holding back today's generation?.....The "Whatever" generation that dosnt mind living with mom and pop at age 25? (I've been on my own since 17, not braggin', but wondering.) Do people today have the balls to drop out?

Scratchy wrote:The answer is not a simple one Phil. Its as different as everyone of our current, personal situations. But these answers are only a band-aid. I think, when the dust settles, there will be a major downward mobility that people will have to learn to live with, unless they act out in one way or another. The 60's generation of middle-class youth dropped out of society to underscore their beliefs. What is holding back today's generation?.....The "Whatever" generation that dosnt mind living with mom and pop at age 25? (I've been on my own since 17, not braggin', but wondering.) Do people today have the balls to drop out?

It's become virtually impossible to "drop out," with our modern parameters, Scratchy. Costs, combined with the world of high finance, coupled with the technologies of today - you cannot escape like you could 40-50 years ago. Try to get an apartment to live in without a security/credit check. Try to get a job without a drug test/security/credit check. It's become very difficult, at best, not to work & live within the confines of our 'new society.'

The poor steal cheat and lie as well as the rich.

The rich are greedy, but so are the poor.

Fools say that the poor steal because they have nothing.

Then why do the rich steal when they have everything?

Class warfare is for chumps.

I have no condemnation for rich or poor as each is as God decided to bless or curse. I don't envy the rich, but neither do I envy the poor.

So what I am saying is that (For those who believe in God) it is God who decides who shall be rich or poor and he does not do it according to how good you are or how evil you are. So if God has made a man rich, what has that to do with me? Why should I covet or envy what he has? Why should I compare his blessings with mine that I become envious of him? Would I know if he died tomorrow? Or if he died yesterday? It means nothing to me. I am what I am. I am happy with little, I am happy with much. I don't need to buy into this class warfare that "O" started.

Envy and coveting are for the little man, not for those who appreciate what they have. Class warfare only brings discontent and envy to those who were once content with what God has given to them.

God isn't involved in the things I'm seeing, SG, or, if he is, then his plan is WAY over my head. This is the plan of the mega-corporate mind, not god's way, & certainly NOT the American way!

They just deregulated the electric co's in WV...watch & see what happens here, next. (See Calif.) We have billboards bigger than tractor-trailers on our roads, now. When did THAT become okay? I though we solved that sh*t back in the 60's! This is NOT a class war, SG. It's turning into enslavement by a corporate world run amok, with no regulation, no stops, & no morality.

Is God involved our decisions, in matters of our thinking? These scriptures taken from NIV tell me God is involved in everything.

“ In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps” {Prov 16:9} Read Prov 16:1 and 16:4.

“And I will make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward this people. So that when you leave, you will not leave empty handed.” {Ex 3:21-22}

“You will be driven away from people and will live with wild animals; you will eat grass like cattle. Seven times will pass by for you until you acknowledge that the most high is sovereign over all the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone He wishes.” {Dan 4:32}

Therefore hear the word of the Lord: “I saw the Lord sitting on His throne with all the host of Heaven standing around Him on His right and on His left. And the Lord said: “Who will lure Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilliad and going to his death there?” One suggested this and another that. Finally a spirit came foreword and said, “I will lure him.”
“By what means?” The Lord asked. “I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.” He said. “You will succeed in luring him” said the Lord, “Go and do it.” (1 Kings 22:19-22} {Numbers 23:12}

Through these scriptures we see that God exercises control over a mans steps, his thoughts, his speech, his disposition towards others, even what he eats. Personally, I believe that covers about everything a man does. As an important point of interest, those scriptures were depicting the actions, thoughts and deeds of those that do not know Him or acknowledge Him. For a few more scriptures read: Gen: 45:4-8, Ex:9:12, Ex 17:10-13, Nu 21:1-3, Deut 13:1-3, Deut 28:1-68.

“All things work for the good of those who love God” {Romans 8:28}

God does have a plan and it is well on the way. Certain things have to happen to fulfill scripture, and God is seeing that they are getting done. God is going to refine His church as fine gold in the fires of tribulation. He is setting things up to purify His church. He is going to rid his church of the posers and fence sitters. It isn't a bad thing. It is a good thing.

"Through these scriptures we see that God exercises control over a mans steps, his thoughts, his speech, his disposition towards others, even what he eats. Personally, I believe that covers about everything a man does."

That leaves damned little space for free will, SG. I hafta question that.

philbymon wrote:"Through these scriptures we see that God exercises control over a mans steps, his thoughts, his speech, his disposition towards others, even what he eats. Personally, I believe that covers about everything a man does."

That leaves damned little space for free will, SG. I hafta question that.

Well, then God should send himself to Hell and stop complaining about us humans.

Yeah Phil,

But then again He chose us, we didn't choose Him. I think I have a handle on how it could go both ways as contradictory as it sounds. If chosen and written into the book of life before creation, then one would believe we were predestined. However, being omnipotent, God knew who would accept Him. So therein lies choice. And God guides the righteous on the right path. I could give you those also.

And if God guides the righteous, then He also guides the wicked. For it is written that God hardened Pharaohs heart so the world could witness the miracles of the God of Israel. And again, God raised up Pharaoh for that very purpose. Some were created for special purposes, others for every day use, as Paul wrote. Judas was the son of perdition by destiny. He was chosen because he would accept. <-- Now that is my opinion.

But I only quoted the above scriptures, I didn't write them into the Bible. That is why I gave their location. yet it can be a bit to absorb.

I only quoted the above scriptures, I didn't write them into the Bible.

But a man DID write them into the Bible, correct? It was an interpretation of God's will that he wrote down, then an interpretation of THAT which was transcribed into the English language.

So do you really know God's will from those words?

Those who speak the same language read the same book. Therefore we are discussing the aspects of the book in relationship to the beliefs in that book.
Consequently, for arguments sake, if a monkey were to have written it, your statement is still not in context with the discussion. The book is the basis of the discussion, and the words referenced to it by those who believe it ,not who wrote it.

What you left out in your thought process is the fact that you have to have faith to accept it. Without faith, it is merely a book, and subject to anyones interpretation. And a monkey could have written it in the minds eye of the skeptic.