Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I really don't know. This has been part of the discussion in several threads lately, and I have to admit, I've been struggling with this issue in nearly every aspect of my life lately.

Is it money?

Apparently not. My department has 30 employees (at my job, of course), and 27 of those people are basically worthless-they scrape by, doing the minimum that they have to do (and a few of them actually work way harder to get OUT of doing their job-than it would be to simply do what they're supposed to. No motivation there, no work ethic...just beating in time to collect a paycheck.
Music has been the same way for me. Last year, I ended up paying a drummer to play for our band. He was happy to take the money, but in the end I had to kick him out-he was too lazy to learn songs and screwed up a couple of performances for us big time.

Is it passion for art?

Gimme a break. Musically, everyone who I've been involved with for the last couple of years has been more interested in jamming than learning anything the right way. I've stressed the importance of performance, but I've been surrounded by guys that want to take five minutes between songs on stage...rather than learn a set list.
I do a haunted house every year, primarily for trick-or-treaters, but it's open to everyone. This is the sixth year I've done it, and each year it gets BIGGER. The people involved want to do more with it, bigger, better, scarier!!! The problem with that is...no one wants to do the work! They leave it to me. Yesterday, I had two of my regular guys giving me hell because a couple of jobs weren't completed...yet neither of them bothered (in the six months that we've been planning this) to make sure themselves that it was done.

The bottom line is this: I simply don't know how to motivate people. Moreover, I don't understand WHAT motivates people...at this point, it seems that people are happy to let ME do all the work, but at the same time, when something isn't going their way, they are all too happy to step in and flap their lips...

Sorry for the rant, please give me your input!!!

Desire, pure & simple.

You have a strong desire to produce, to improve, to grow. musically. There are a whole slew of ppl out there...most, in fact...that play music for the occasional rush, or escape, or simple enjoyment, but still lack that rush that you get from it.

Finding others like yourself is difficult, at best.

I've been there all my life, & I feel your pain.

I agree with Phil here.
I would have termed it differently most likely but his point stands as valid IMO.

We ( our bubble boy society ) no longer have survival as the main driving instinct so much like the loss of any definitive rite of manhood has deprived us of real men our entitlement society has robbed most of any desire to succeed.

If people were fired for poor work ethic instead of having a multitude of "acceptable" excuses to draw from. They would perform better in general.

I have witnessed the difference myself ( and it's quite stark ) between my working for oilfield companies in the 70's. If you did not perform, or missed a day of work you quite simply did not have a job someone else did.
Verses all the lame assed excuses people in the medical field use to get out of work.
I'm not coming in today I have cramps
... uh you also don't have a freaking job !!
I stood outside the gate of Ranger Well Service three days in a row at 0530 as they opened the gates. Hard hat, steel toes on and my lunch box in my hand. On the fourth day one of their employees was about 5 minutes late. He was fired on the spot. The Rig Operator walked out to the gate where I stood and said, you want to work ? Go get in that truck.

Consequences and goals are common motivators in life.
Damn few people have the internal drive to get it done on their own initiative.

Is that what it is? Entitlement? Everyone thinks now that they should get everything they want, when they want, without having to work at it. Sad.

George, I know exactly what you mean (I'm not a health care employee, but I do work in a hospital). It seems like you have to murder someone to get fired.
Another one of my personal gripes is the excuses people make because they have children. I don't have any children (but would like to-different story), and I understand that they are a full time responsibility. That being said, you can't eat your cake and have it too. I don't know how many times I've been called in to work because someone couldn't find a babysitter (who waits until the day they have to work to try and find a babysitter??). As cold as it may sound, I didn't impregnate anyone...and I didn't hold a gun to anyone's head and make them have sex. Don't hold me accountable for your child. I have my own life, and you made that decision. AND YET, people act as though I'm obligated to cover for them in these situations.

Sorry. I have a lot of pent-up anxiety, apparently.

Anyway, I often wonder if it's just me...or maybe a select group of people. Why are people so self-involved? And hell, are they RIGHT to be?

Maybe I'm wrong. Seriously. Maybe I'd be happier if I cared less about the big picture.


Jeez, I'm a crybaby today.

"Humanism."

Good word, Klugmo.

Sometimes I forget that factor. It's easy to get hung up on all those things that seem like selfish behaviour. Being guilty as I am, of often seeing things in black and white (which I am not apologizing for, only recognizing that it doesn't always apply), I often equate a person's inability to motivate themselves with apathy.

I hate excuses, but sometimes its necessary to weed through the bad ones and honor the legitimate ones. Tough to do, though.

Black and white.
Yes.
There is no gray.



Except my hair.

Careful Klugmo, “Humanism" is a fighting word to Glenj!

joseph6 wrote:" Sometimes I forget that factor. It's easy to get hung up on all those things that seem like selfish behaviour. Being guilty as I am, of often seeing things in black and white (which I am not apologizing for, only recognizing that it doesn't always apply), I often equate a person's inability to motivate themselves with apathy.

Binary, black and white, thinking usually leads to bad things happening. There’s a lotta grey out there. Unfortunately, it is a common HUMAN habit to jump to conclusions. Breaking this habit requires a bit of introspection and self-discovery. Something our busy lives often don’t leave enough time for.

KLUGMO wrote: People are everything.

Damn straight.
People aren’t ONE thing or ANOTHER. Every kind of behavior POSSIBLE has been done, repeatedly. But, there’s always a reason behind it.
As far as motivation goes, it’s different from person to person. Most people are just not internally driven the way Joe is. I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago a study I remembered done to try to figure out why computer programmers would give away freeware, why Amish raise barns, what really motivates people, etc. They found that money only works so far and in certain situations. Beyond a certain income level, more money doesn’t make any difference, the work itself does. Most of it is just finding the right people for the right job, which is frustrating in itself.

philbymon wrote:Desire, pure & simple.

Yup.

joseph6 wrote:!!!

sanshouheil wrote:We ( our bubble boy society ) no longer have survival as the main driving instinct so much like the loss of any definitive rite of manhood has deprived us of real men our entitlement society has robbed most of any desire to succeed.

“Rite of manhood” has deprived us of “real men?” You’ve watched Fight Club too many times. Rent Full Metal Jacket.

sanshouheil wrote:If people were fired for poor work ethic instead of having a multitude of "acceptable" excuses to draw from. They would perform better in general.

Fear of losing one’s job is usually a constant no matter where you work. After awhile you become numb to it, like a prisoner, and just say, “f**k it!” Living in Detroit’s worst ghetto you get to see the cumulative effect fear has on people who have nothing left to lose and don’t care what you do to them anymore.

joseph6 wrote:Is that what it is? Entitlement? Everyone thinks now that they should get everything they want, when they want, without having to work at it. Sad.

Although it’s true some people are just plain ignorant of how good they’ve got it and expect getting their way all the time. My spoiled bitch youngest sister was always like that, until she got out in the real world awhile. She couldn’t believe homeless people actually slept OUTDOORS the first time she saw one in Detroit…! It makes you wanna smack your forehead and go, “D’OH!”

joseph6 wrote:George, I know exactly what you mean (I'm not a health care employee, but I do work in a hospital). It seems like you have to murder someone to get fired.

Any manager worth anything knows that sh*t HAPPENS and finding good people is HARD. So, if they’re any good they’ll cut some slack. Some of them may go too far though.

joseph6 wrote: Another one of my personal gripes is the excuses people make because they have children. I don't have any children (but would like to-different story), and I understand that they are a full time responsibility. That being said, you can't eat your cake and have it too. I don't know how many times I've been called in to work because someone couldn't find a babysitter (who waits until the day they have to work to try and find a babysitter??). As cold as it may sound, I didn't impregnate anyone...and I didn't hold a gun to anyone's head and make them have sex. Don't hold me accountable for your child. I have my own life, and you made that decision. AND YET, people act as though I'm obligated to cover for them in these situations.

DAMN BREEDERS!

joseph6 wrote:Why are people so self-involved? And hell, are they RIGHT to be?

It’s their life. A job is just part of it.

joseph6 wrote:" Maybe I'm wrong. Seriously, maybe I'd be happier if I cared less about the big picture.

Ignorance is bliss. But, knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Maybe we should stay stupid?

I wish I knew. Apparently some think that a few beers get people motivated...Some think that living vicariously through others is motivation...Some think that playing for free is motivation...Some think that recording your first get together with new people without rehearsal is motivation...Some think that having a front man sing every song when other band members sing better is motivation...like I say I wish I knew.

Fear of losing one’s job is usually a constant no matter where you work. After awhile you become numb to it, like a prisoner, and just say, “f**k it!” Living in Detroit’s worst ghetto you get to see the cumulative effect fear has on people who have nothing left to lose and don’t care what you do to them anymore.


This is an example of what I call "victim mentality".

A warrior would walk the hell out of that slum, or perish in the attempt.

If you simply accept your situation as defeat, you deserve no less than defeat.

sanshouheil wrote:Fear of losing one’s job is usually a constant no matter where you work. After awhile you become numb to it, like a prisoner, and just say, “f**k it!” Living in Detroit’s worst ghetto you get to see the cumulative effect fear has on people who have nothing left to lose and don’t care what you do to them anymore.


This is an example of what I call "victim mentality".

A warrior would walk the hell out of that slum, or perish in the attempt.

If you simply accept your situation as defeat, you deserve no less than defeat.

Yeah, those usually get beaten by cops and thrown in jail.

THis is actually why I am even on Banmix. I have always been entusiastic about music and about teaching it to others. I became lax with my musical goal after purchasing a house. I basically became more concerned with making money to pay bills and to keep food on the table. Then I learned of a friend who lost his ability to play his ax after developing a neurological disorder known as focal dystonia. However, out of determination, he re-invented himself by becoming a left-handed player. He restrung his guitar and re-learned how to play this instrument. This was a big kick in the head for me. Here I am with the ability to play the flute, yet, I was not taking advantage of this. I had my health that supported the necessary skills for playing the flute...it was time to begin using it. I began composing, arranging music...practicing, teaching, planning. I have been exhausted ever since.

In my journey to reignite my love for music I found my way here. Met some really cool people here. HI! I joined a flute choir, I began playing in a chamber group and a wind ensemble The flute choir will be reading through Coffee Break on Tuesday. We plan to play it in our Spring concert next year. Numerous things can contribute to creative lethargy All that matters is that you get your butt out of it.

Black57 wrote:THis is actually why I am even on Banmix. I have always been entusiastic about music and about teaching it to others. I became lax with my musical goal after purchasing a house. I basically became more concerned with making money to pay bills and to keep food on the table. Then I learned of a friend who lost his ability to play his ax after developing a neurological disorder known as focal dystonia. However, out of determination, he re-invented himself by becoming a left-handed player. He restrung his guitar and re-learned how to play this instrument. This was a big kick in the head for me. Here I am with the ability to play the flute, yet, I was not taking advantage of this. I had my health that supported the necessary skills for playing the flute...it was time to begin using it. I began composing, arranging music...practicing, teaching, planning. I have been exhausted ever since.

In my journey to reignite my love for music I found my way here. Met some really cool people here. HI! I joined a flute choir, I began playing in a chamber group and a wind ensemble The flute choir will be reading through Coffee Break on Tuesday. We plan to play it in our Spring concert next year. Numerous things can contribute to creative lethargy All that matters is that you get your butt out of it.

So true, and it's a damn shame that countless people with musical talent or other talents never do anything with the talent. I'm glad you're using your flute talent. Sometimes just using your abilities is enough motivation...and can inspire others.

fisherman bob wrote:

Black57 wrote:THis is actually why I am even on Banmix. I have always been entusiastic about music and about teaching it to others. I became lax with my musical goal after purchasing a house. I basically became more concerned with making money to pay bills and to keep food on the table. Then I learned of a friend who lost his ability to play his ax after developing a neurological disorder known as focal dystonia. However, out of determination, he re-invented himself by becoming a left-handed player. He restrung his guitar and re-learned how to play this instrument. This was a big kick in the head for me. Here I am with the ability to play the flute, yet, I was not taking advantage of this. I had my health that supported the necessary skills for playing the flute...it was time to begin using it. I began composing, arranging music...practicing, teaching, planning. I have been exhausted ever since.

In my journey to reignite my love for music I found my way here. Met some really cool people here. HI! I joined a flute choir, I began playing in a chamber group and a wind ensemble The flute choir will be reading through Coffee Break on Tuesday. We plan to play it in our Spring concert next year. Numerous things can contribute to creative lethargy All that matters is that you get your butt out of it.

So true, and it's a damn shame that countless people with musical talent or other talents never do anything with the talent. I'm glad you're using your flute talent. Sometimes just using your abilities is enough motivation...and can inspire others.

You know what Fisherman...I hope that I am able to inspire others in the pursuit of musical happiness. It is very easy to become sidetracked, which is what happened to me. The musician that I am talking about wrote a song called the Bow and the Arrow. It is about human nature. Some people are arrows. They have direction and aim. They are arrows and are powerless/useless without being propelled by a person or people. The cheerleaders, teachers, performers, parents etc. that say go there go here...you can do it...watch me...These people are bows. Like the arrow that is useless without a bow, a bow is also useless without the arrow. Finding the right bow and the right arrow is what the journey is all about.