Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

A guitarist called me yesterday looking for part-time fill-in work now that he was laid off from his day job and needs money (what money?). He's been hosting various blues jams around town for free or next to nothing for a few years. One of the places he hosts on Wednesday and they pack the place apparently and the band members get "paid" $20 each. The most money he gets is about $50 per band member, but that's rare. Most places he's played for free. I asked him why he doesn't ask for a raise, especially from the place he's packing. He tells me that the band plays for the love of it and he really likes the owners, two hot blonde gals. Plus they feed him and he gets a few drinks for "free" occasionally.
Most likely if he did demand a raise they would simply get another dumbass band to host the jam for free or next to free. What happens when you do a bunch of free gigs is the club owners expect you to play for free. Now that he's desperate for money it's obvious that he has shot himself in the foot, and while shooting himself in the foot he reduces my chances for getting paid also. All I want is a gig with fair pay, and with idiots like this who play for the "love" of music it's getting increasingly difficult to make ANY money gigging. There's too many desperate fools ready willing and eager to play for free. STOP DOING IT!

Amen, Bob. Said the same thing for years. 90+% of musicians (I'm pulling that figure out of my butt, but you'll get the point) don't have one thing that is essential to a successful business: ethics. This guy you are talking about has been cutting YOUR throat this whole time-because he's willing to play for nothing, or next to nothing. He's essentially beating his competition (read: us) out of jobs by bidding the lowest, ignoring what basically breaks down to "fair business practices". Personally, I hope you don't lift a finger to help him out. More folks like that need to sell their equipment and move on...

When I was younger I always got frustrated when I would get handed a $20...for the whole band! And here I am driving three hours, and can't even get a meal after the show. Back then I wish someone would have told me about written agreements.

After my last band split I started reading books on music business. I gave myself a lot of palm hits to the forehead while saying "I could of had a V8"!

These snake oil peddlers will try to get over on anybody, and unfortunately are doing a good job at it.

Just remember club owners, you get what you pay for!!

musichead10 wrote:Just remember club owners, you get what you pay for!!

The problem is that some of the best players in town are playing for free so the club owners are getting quality for what they are "paying" for. Also there's all kinds of band contests going on. The bands have to sell tickets to these shows and then hope they win some money (most don't win anything). This is yet another ploy to get people to play for nothing. It's all in favor of the venue owners and organizers of the contests. One of the contest organizers called me up today to perform at one of these contests. What a joke...

seems to be heading back to the old days...sometimes getting on the road is the only way to make a living at music.

musichead10 wrote:seems to be heading back to the old days...sometimes getting on the road is the only way to make a living at music.

Can you make a living by being a touring band? That's a burning question I've had for a while.

the running scam here is battle of the band competitions..there must be 3 or 4 at various spots around Tampa on a given weekend, the bar makes a killing, the promoter get a nice check for his services, bands play for free, for the off chance they might with the lame grand prize, which almost never goes to the best band there, but rather, the band that the snaky promoter back door'ed into the show in the first place.

Most bars my band plays at we are paid by the door, so if we don't promote, and thus turn a decent crowd out, then we play for free. That hasn't been a problem so far, we've done ok, not any real income, but we have managed to get some merch on what we make, but we aren't cutting anyones throat, thats the way most bars/clubs do buisness around Tampa. There are plenty of flat rate gigs to be had as well, and in that that scenario, I see your point, Bob..when we get to where we are playing flat rate, I'll make sure to be extra stiff, when negotiating our fee..lol

I've been playing gigs part time for about 30 years. I was making the same or better money back in the 80's. I could call on a few bars for gigs and find one almost immediately, and get a guarantee from the beginning. Now it's like finding a needle in a haystack. What we need is a union. As much as I hate the thought of a union, at least the venues would have to pay a minimum wage for each performer. Way back in the day the musician's union was very strong and there were many clubs with live music. It's a different world today. Pretty sad...

I just wanna play out and when I'm ready I will play out no matter what the base line is. If you are good enough you'll get people interested in paying you. That's the way I was brought up in Music, so for me at least nothing has changed.

Can't wait by the way....

Bob, I feel your pain. My area they do pay most cover bands anywhere from 250-400, thats the range. We played a bunch up until 6 months ago and had gotten a pretty reliable crowd to come see us. The first of the year we bumped our guarantee to $600. Ive only booked 2 shows at this rate. They arent club gigs. Ive shared before that in 79-81 my 3 piece band played on a regular basis for $300 a night. It seems for decent cover bands the rate in my area is 75 to 100 a night per man. Like they say some things never change. We just made the decision that we werent going to play for the going rate, I guess that means that we wont be playing much LOL.

Good Luck

Union??

OK

What happens when any thing becomes unionized?

Prices do go up. Cub owners won't hire union musicians just because their prices are higher. If they won't hire them now, they sure won't hire you then. They always can find a relative to play for free or drinks. Or hire someone to be a DJ. And you pay dues even if you DON'T get any gigs out of your membership.
The lousy union players can piss and moan if you want to fire them. They will sue you.
Unions usually mean less work & less competence for more pay. If you are union, you can only hire union musicians. Just the nature of the beast. In the good old union days around here, the union recommended the musician and you didn't. You had to hire the union guy that was out of work over the good non union musician even if the union guy sucked.

We get between 150 to 200 per night supporting a known artist.

Can you make a living by being a touring band? That's a burning question I've had for a while.

You can if the tour is well organized and you are touring with a named artist. Otherwise it's junk food, crashing on someone floor and gas ... if you lucky.

This is pitiful.

I quit playing for free along time ago, save for benefits & my fave local open mic. I don't even do that much anymore. Screw this biz.

If you won't pay, then I won't play. That's my rule, & if it's less than $100, I won't play more than one set.

Not that I have ppl knocking my door down to hear me play, but I cannot support a biz that cannot support me in return.

This is the only biz that hasn't had a raise in 25-30 years, & it pisses me off. A solo act should be getting between $200 & $400 a pop these days. You're lucky to get $75. I won't play for less than $150 for weekends & $100 for weeknights anymore, & that, ladies & gents, is a crime when I look at how much other businesses have raised their rates.

If the public wants karaoke, let 'em have it, I say! If all they wanna do is watch their f*ckin' sports on the big screen tvs, let 'em have it & enjoy! I don't need to be out there sweating my ass off for nothing anymore while I'm told to turn it down cuz I'm drowning out some goddamned sports common-tater.

This country has gone to hell in a handbasket, when it comes to the arts. We have no frikken culture anymore. I wanna go someplace where the music is appreciated, & this obviously ain't the place. Brag as much as you want about this place, but for us musos, it sucks, pure & simple. We are the dregs of society - ignored, berated, accused of being druggies whether we are or not, underpaid, under-appreciated, under-employed, pushed around by cops, ignored in favor of just about ANY other pursuit, etc. I've had it.

American audiences are the worst in the world, I've read. They say that we're rude, insufferable assholes, at best. I quite agree with that assessment, & I haven't ever played outside this country. Yeah, even here you can get the occasional good show, but they're far outweighed by the venues that screw you, or the drunken jerks that screw up your show, or the cops ruining it all with check-points just outside the damned parking lots, or the constant blaring tv screens in the bars, & so on.

Gee....do I sound bitter? That's because I AM bitter...AND jaded...AND pissed off about it all, & sick of thinking about it.

Sorry if this seems a little over the top for you more sensitive types, but I played in a bar last night, & while I was playing, they were showing American Idol on their big screen tv's! Talk about RUDE! I'm totally pissed at the whole f*cking scene anymore!