Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I've put in a lot of time with some guys, 25 years to be exact and helped write a lot of songs with a couple of the guys who have no interest in doing anything with them, other than stay in a garage and not even try to tighten it up. So anyway I would like to do a couple of the songs and would love to do it without hurting someones feelings or get my ass sued over them . How would you go about this. Or how would you want to be treated in this kind of situation. All of your Ideas mean a lot to me and are really apreciated.


Its another day in Paradise !!!

Blunt truthiness always works best for me.

"Hey, guys, it's pretty obvious that you don't wanna really DO anything with this material, but I think it has merit, & want to try recording it with some real dedicated musicians in a real studio. Would that be okay with you? I mean, I'd make sure that your names are on it & you would get paid for anything that's made on it. Chances are it won't do anything at all, but I want to try it out as sort of a personal side project."

If they say no...eh..nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

The ones that you helped write are not an issue; just do them. The ones that the other guys wrote: ask their permission, although you really don't need it. They can't sue you unless you make money off from them. But the best course of action is just write some new songs.

Sometimes I don't think they realized how good a few of these songs were. I've been doing them for about 2 weeks with my new band and the couple I'm talking about have really come together in a special way with the changes and drive we gave them. Right now I'm short 3 songs to finish our cd and these fit so well I really would love to just do them, and worry about the pains I know it will cause later. The guy I'm worrying over has never giving anyone credit for anything they have helped with which has been the point of some heated discousions recently. I can put these on the cd now with very little work and believe they could possibly make some real money. I never would have thought a year ago that was possible, but lately things have started to move the way I've wanted for years. I've got a lot of music boiling out and writing some new tunes is forthcoming. I really want these songs on my cd as they are a part of something I've spent over 20 years working on. But I'm a little worried I might lose a good freind if he thinks I'm stealing his song.


But one more day in Paradise !!!!

Invite him to play on those songs. If you are paying for the studio time then tell him he has to do his homework and come to the studio prepared on a professional level just like any other musician would. If he doesn't want to do that or can't play to the level you exspect then delete his track and continue on with your recording. That way you gave him the opportunity to participate and he didn't grab the bull by the horns so he has no gripe.

I would simply tell them that if they want to use any of the material with out you, on a CD they want to produce, that would be fine with you. And that you are going to do yours without them, since they aren't interested. Just make a mutual deal offer.

After all, do you think you are going to get rich making a CD? Or even sell enough to pay for your time rehearsing, recording, mastering, and advertising the CD?

I can't even give my sh1t away.

I doubt I'd make one red cent but its like winning the lottery, you can't win if you don't buy a ticket. I'd bet the odds are better though. The real reason I'm doing this are more about doing something for myself I've always wanted to do. I'm scared I won't get it done if I wait any longer.The other guy I was playing with always had reasons not to do anything. It was always "just for fun" . I hope its something my grandkids will like one of these days. I'm not rich , and I could care less about being rich. I have everything I want and need. Sorry but It's all about me.


And its another day in Paradise !!!!

Then just do it!!!

jimmydanger wrote:
The ones that the other guys wrote: ask their permission, although you really don't need it. They can't sue you unless you make money off from them.

That's not accurate Jimmy.

If someone else wrote the songs, it's their copyright, and ANY USE of the songs requires express permission from the author. It is not merely about making money off the material, but it is just as illegal to COPY them, DISTRIBUTE them, or even DISPLAY them (meaning upload them to a website, for example) If you wrote the song, you have ALL RIGHTS to their use, other than the exemption for "fair use" which would be using a small clip of the song in a news story, for example, or making a parody of the song. But ascertaining permission, even with parodies, is the best path. Weird Al Yankovic for example, did not have to have Michael Jackson's permission to parody "Beat it", but as professional courtesy, he requested it anyway. Obviously, Michael said "Yes".

jimmydanger wrote:But the best course of action is just write some new songs.

I agree.

You know #1 more than likely you will not make any money on this endeaver, just spend money to do it. I dont mean to rain on your parade but I think all of us have music that we think could take us to the "top" but more than likely its not going to happen.

If you have a group right now that is rehearsed and ready to record this music then do it. Why? Just so you have a good representation of the songs to keep for yourself and also to hand to friends to here what you are about. I wouldnt worry about others unless you made "NO" contribution to the writing of the material. Only you know this and I could care less, but if someone else really wrote the songs dont do it, but if you made a major contribution to the writing then get these songs recorded, because the other party obviously isnt interested in doing it.

Five years from now you will be glad you have a good professional recording of these songs. Trust me on this, I wish I had taken the time to record a lot of stuff that Ive done and just didnt do it for one reason or another, and Ive recorded hundreds of songs I wrote or played on, but I still remember the ones I let get away.

How many of you do "Cover songs" and do not pay the rights to perform them in clubs? Most bands make their living doing other peoples stuff for money. So why should anyone get self righteous about a couple of songs no one else wants to perform?

Perhaps only the guys who never did any cover songs in a club should be preaching the morality of not doing someone else's material on a CD that isn't going to make money. Maybe the guys who mailed the artist a check every time they did their cover song in a club should speak up. If anyone wants to do my stuff, they simply have to do it well enough to satisfy me.

It's for you and your friends. All you have to do is ask the guys if you can put them on your CD, if you give them credit. Or even offer them a % cut on every CD you actually sell. Wanna bet they aren't copyrighted anyway? So it's a moral issue. If you have been performing them with your other band, and you helped polish the final product, maybe you do have some rights. Like someone said, you can always write your own material if they say no. A lot of musicians would like to see someone doing something they wrote.

I let local bands do some of my original material. I sure hope they remember me when they become mega star millionaires. Like that's going to happen.

CraigMaxim wrote:

jimmydanger wrote:
The ones that the other guys wrote: ask their permission, although you really don't need it. They can't sue you unless you make money off from them.

That's not accurate Jimmy.

If someone else wrote the songs, it's their copyright, and ANY USE of the songs requires express permission from the author. It is not merely about making money off the material, but it is just as illegal to COPY them, DISTRIBUTE them, or even DISPLAY them (meaning upload them to a website, for example) If you wrote the song, you have ALL RIGHTS to their use, other than the exemption for "fair use" which would be using a small clip of the song in a news story, for example, or making a parody of the song. But ascertaining permission, even with parodies, is the best path. Weird Al Yankovic for example, did not have to have Michael Jackson's permission to parody "Beat it", but as professional courtesy, he requested it anyway. Obviously, Michael said "Yes".

jimmydanger wrote:But the best course of action is just write some new songs.

I agree.

Legally, yes you are correct. In practical purposes, you can't get blood from a turnip. Unless these songs made some money there would be nothing to sue for is what I meant.

SG - imho, there's a HUGE difference between playing a song live, & selling or giving away a recording of it. Perhaps it's just me, though...& Craig...& RM...

philbymon wrote:SG - imho, there's a HUGE difference between playing a song live, & selling or giving away a recording of it. Perhaps it's just me, though...& Craig...& RM...

I don't believe ASCAP would agree with you. They expect you to pay royalties when performing any artists material for money.
All BMI and other organizations don't like you doing their material for cash, no matter what. They do not see a difference in a live performance and a home recording. Any and all of it is getting paid for someone else's work through their eyes. I am not a know it all, but we have been "informed" before while performing in crappy dives. But they didn't do anything to us.

Please correct me if I am ignorant concerning this fact. (But do it with their statement concerning live performances of their material.)

That may be true, but they get the BARS to pay thier fees, & NOT recording studios, right? When someone puts out a CD, it's up to them to pay the royalties, so even ACAP & BMI see a difference.

As for the players having to pay, well, as long as the bar pays, it's covered, as far as I know. I've never heard of them going after the bands before...