Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I'm beginning to think it's a complete waste of time to deliver a demo CD to any venue owner or manager. I'll bet over 90% of them get thrown in the trash. Maybe I'll just tell them from now on check out my Bandmix profile page. The heck with sending out a promo package...it costs too much money considering the meager returns...

it's amazing, EPK's, myspace, bandmix, etc.. and bars STILL INSIST I SEND A "DEMO" WTF? It's a total waste. I can see everything I need from a bands myspace page. I refuse to believe there are THAT many managers/owners that are afraid of the internet.

Not the same for us at all. They usually check out or websites and youtube. Or just word of mouth. I guess we have it pretty good here. I can't think of us ever having to send a promo package.

I've had this conversation many times with various bands. Let's face it, you never sound like the tape/cd/whatever and venue owners know that too.
Add that to the fact that you really do need to sell yourself when going into places and that at the end of the day is what gets you the gig, the cd is purely a backup of what you are selling.

I've been in sales and dealt with salesmen. It boils down to one thing only. Do they like you? If you are mailing the stuff in you can expect a 10% call back rate unless you have top notch promo stuff in which case that could alter by some but not that much. Just like anything, they want to see you.

That's what I've found anyway both in music and work but more so in music. Sales people are kicked out of course quite a lot of the time

Managers usually listen to the first minute of the first two tracks of the CD - if they are interested in the first place. Just burn your own demo CD, it costs 50 cents.

I really think that, in most cases, they tell you they want a CD just to shut you up about yourself. They aren't interested in your sales pitch. They haven't the time for it. They're trying to work, here.

The best way to sell yourself is to have some of the bar regulars talk about you to the bartenders & owners. They'll listen to thier regulars much more than they ever will you, unless you are a regular, too.

So if you can get the bar's patronage to look you up on myspace & youtube, & if you can impress them, you'll go much farther than you will with a mere CD.

In other words - word of mouth will beat out any CD, cuz most times the bar owners & managers won't give a CD a chance.

I used to put 20-30 second clips of my stuff on tapes, & later on CD's, but I think I prolly only actually got a few jobs that way. It wasn't until I got my name on a few marquis that I started to get regular work. I've also given & gotten referrals from other musicians, which is a great way to go, too, although some ppl have this whole overblown idea of competition that ruins that, there are many that will do referrals tit for tat, & it works.

I need to go in person to all these places first. I've been sending them out to places I don't have time to visit in person. I have a much better chance when I visit them in person. There's something about man to man or man to woman contact that gets their hands writing our band's name down on their calendar...

Perhaps it is arrogance? I really don't have a dog in this fight but it would seem that Bar / Venue owners these days think they are doing the musician a service instead of the other way around.
What music needs is musician entrepreneurs whom band together ( co-op ) build and play their own venues and to heck with the cheesedic bar owners.
Unfortunately musicians and Nurses have a lot in common. Too self serving to form any kind of meaningful long lasting unions / relationships.

sanshouheil wrote:it would seem that Bar / Venue owners these days think they are doing the musician a service instead of the other way around.

I'm seeing that too. Sad times. Perhaps it's payback for the arrogance of musicians back in the 80's? lol.

Gawd I miss the 80's...

Ive seen them throw them in the trash when I was leaving and then again Ive had a couple play them on the spot for the people to hear that are there.

I like to go see them face to face if I really want to play somewhere, if its a place I dotn care aobut I will just send one or take one in with a price. But the places I want to play I will ussually visit 2-5 times to secure a gig. Get to know them. A venue is doing you a favor to put you in there establishment, they are a business and they should get a positive return for you playing there. A place that guarantees you $400 has to have 80 cutomers paying $5 to cover you being there. I know we all say that the bar is mking money off drinks, but more than likely if its a well run bar they will make that money with or without you. A lot of us play for the love of playing and arent as concerned with making money, we do it for art or to showoff our musical skills. A bar owner doesnt care aobut this other than what goes thru their cash registers, and if you cant put money in their cash registers why are you even there.

I know some younger guys that have opened up a couple of times for our band to get gigs. Ive gone to see them and they are playing exactly what they want to hear and play, which is cool, but so far they havent found an audience for what they want ot play. Why should a bar pay a group that only brings 25-40 people in? Once again it is business, treat it that way and you will get some return.

Why not carry a small MP3 player with you? I have a nice set of headphones (Koss Titanium for only $19.00, can be ordered from the Koss website) They sound almost as pleasing to my ears as my DT770 Pro Headphones costing $200.

I always have an MP3 player and the headphones with me every where I go. That takes very little space, and I have never had anyone "too busy" to listen. Sometimes they want to listen longer than I want them to listen. I even had a club owner plug my MP3 player into the house system before. Being really self conscious, I am never prepared for something like that.

Maybe that isn't a great solution either, but it is a TOOL for your arsenal. Now days you need every tool you can get.
Not only that, but when I see other musicians and they ask what I have been doing, I can hand it over and bore them to death with my music.

If the club owner or the barkeep doesn't listen, they aren't interested in hiring a band anyway, no matter what you do.

More likely than not, they just don't have the man berries to tell you.

I think the number 1 reason bar-owners don't listen to your Cd and/or don't make you an immediate offer is to see how desperate you are to play there. There's so many bands trying to get in that they know they can hire a really good band who is desperate and then they guarantee them nothing or next to nothing or they make you play for the door (see my other thread "dangerous trend"). It's a big game they are playing because the cards right now are stacked in their favor. In the 80's and early 90's I used to try and get us inclubs and the owners would tell me immediately "when do you want to play?" I even had owners call me up right before a Friday or Saturday and tell me they need me THAT week. Not happening today...

fisherman bob wrote:I think the number 1 reason bar-owners don't listen to your Cd and/or don't make you an immediate offer is to see how desperate you are to play there. There's so many bands trying to get in that they know they can hire a really good band who is desperate and then they guarantee them nothing or next to nothing or they make you play for the door (see my other thread "dangerous trend"). It's a big game they are playing because the cards right now are stacked in their favor. In the 80's and early 90's I used to try and get us inclubs and the owners would tell me immediately "when do you want to play?" I even had owners call me up right before a Friday or Saturday and tell me they need me THAT week. Not happening today...

Ain't that the truth!

Here, three bars that used to book bands closed and all three owners stated that the smoking banned laws played a huge part in their loss of business. So that leaves the Eagle Club, VFW and American Legion.

GOT POLKA?

Young people are the the predominant clientele of most bars and clubs. Let's face it most over-40 year olds do not go to bars. If your product does not appeal to young people you will be fighting for the leftover scraps.

jimmydanger wrote:Young people are the the predominant clientele of most bars and clubs. Let's face it most over-40 year olds do not go to bars. If your product does not appeal to young people you will be fighting for the leftover scraps.

The place we are currently gigging at once a month is almost nothing but young people (35 and younger). Many are into contemporary country or what is called country. A lot of them LOVE what we're doing. They don't know most of our material YET, but we're getting good comments on just about everything so far. I think young people have a much broader appreciation of music than you believe they do. What people call country today is really not country that I'm familiar with. It's got a lot of other influences in it. Don't dismiss the young crowd's musical taste out of hand. They might surprise you...