General Music Chat

A friend of mine recently emailed me the following, and I'd like your input on his theories...

Green Day are THIEVES

I recently put my two cents in at a YouTube page that had the 'Walking Contradiction'
video from Green Day. I commented, rightfully so, that Green Day had stolen the basic
chord structure of that song from The Kinks' "Do It Again". This was met with the
tepid wrath of a narrow-minded Grren Day fan who offered up a counter-comment as
brilliant as much of the YouTube posts written by people born after 1981. I could not
let it rest, however, 'cause sometimes a person's just gotta be brought down using one
of my favorite weapons - the truth.
Here's the message I got, followed by my response:
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Reply to your comment on: Green Day - Walking Contradiction HD 720p
"it sounds nothing like that song. R U KIDDING ME?!?!?!"
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Wow, it looks like I'm going to have to educate you about Green Day.
First, let me say that I like Green Day.
Sometimes, I think that their music sounds like genius, as a lot of the 'American
Idiot' album does, and sometimes it sounds like repetitive pseudopunk fluff, as "Know
Your Enemy" does. But overall, I like them and I'm glad they're around.
I can remember when I was in a band at the time that 'Dookie' had broken, and the guys
in my band thought that I was crazy for thinking that Green Day would be something
more than just a passing fad. (They were wrong; I was right.)
And I might even be covering 'Longview' in a new band that I'm joining. So don't think
I hate Green Day. I'd actually say they rock.
But I also acknowledge that they are plagiarists.
Oasis are plagiarists, and I like them even better than Green Day. And let's not
forget about those giants, Led Zeppelin, whom I also like and who are sometimes referred to as 'the world's
greatest cover band' for THEIR pilfering.
So, if you really want to bond with your band, you need to stop looking at them
through your screen of loyalty and know them for who they are.
To help you, I've taken the liberty of researching the many instances of Green Day's,
er, 'borrowing'.
First, let's talk about The Kinks.
Don't tell me that 'Walking Contradiction' doesn't sound like The Kinks' "Do It
Again". Green Day use the same chord progression in the verse (albeit a less developed
one). And sure, the melodies are only similar in their rhythm, but that's because, for
this song, Green Day were too busy stealing the verse melody from the 'Always Coca-
Cola' jingle.
Then there's 'Warning'. 'Warning"s distinctive bass-riff intro is a direct lift from
The Kinks' 'Picture Book'. (In fact, it's been suggested that at least three other
artists have stolen that intro, and Green Day weren't even the first to rob it.)
Now, don't play dumb and pretend that Green Day have nothing to do with The Kinks.
They're obviously Kinks fans or they wouldn't have covered The Kinks' 'Tired of
Waiting For You' on the 'Private Parts' soundtrack in '97.
They must also like Petula Clark, too, because, in 'Waiting', they nick the melody of
the chorus of Clark's 'Downtown', going so far as to actually sing the word 'downtown'
in a brief showing of guilt-admittance.
They stole the intro from Nirvana's 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' for the intro to their
song 'Christie Road', and they stole the intro from Tokio Hotel's 'Vangessene Kinder'
for their intro to 'Wake Me Up When September Ends'.
In '21 Guns', they do more than just steal the intro of Avril Lavigne's 'Complicated'
for their verse; they also steal the chorus from David Bowie's 'All The Young Dudes'.
In the 'City Of The Damned' section of 'Jesus Of Suburbia', they segue right from
stealing out of Motley Crue's 'On With The Show' into pillaging from Bryan Adams'
'Summer Of '69' (strange influences for such a hip band).
On their '21st Century Breakdown' album, they have a Beatlesque ballad called 'Last Night On Earth' that
gets to the plagiarizing right away. The opening (and recurring) chord progression
comes from John Lennon's 'Isolation', while the melody of the first lyric is taken
from The Dave Clark Five's 'Because'. (And I thought Oasis had cornered the market on
using theft to create faux-Beatles music.)
But their best product of appropriation has to be their classic title track to
'American Idiot'. They did a lot of work to put that song together, stealing this time
not from one, not from two, but from THREE different other songs.
The intro is taken from Dillinger Four's 'DoubleWhiskeyCokeNoIce'. (Green Day must
really love Coca-Cola; I guess that's why people call them 'pop punk'.) The verse is
taken from 'Imagination' by Fifteen, and the distinctive chorus comes to us all the
way from Korea through Jo Young-Nam's 'Dosiyo Annyung'.
Whew! What a heist. They shoulda called that track "Ocean's Three"!
And finally, let's not forget all the nameless times Green Day has even recycled their
OWN songs from earlier albums (putting the band in a league with fellow self-
plagiarizer John Fogerty).
So, if I'm not making any of this up (and you can confirm most of it with YouTube and
Wikipedia searches), and you STILL think that Green Day are as original as the sin on
a Christian newborn, then I have one question for you:
R U KIDDING ME?!?!?! - Reverend Flash

Green Day is a group of talentless hacks with 3 chord songs, and political lyrics that are just made up and don't mean anything.

Theyve made more money off of music than the three of us combined if money is your measure of success.

I love Green Day, early on to me they were just late 70s punk rock, the Ramones and The Sex Pistols did their stuff back then and they stole it also. Ive always like fast quick catchy songs and thats what they did do well.

That took some research there Rev, good job I guess if thats what you want to do.

Not really familiar with there work there Rev.
I would imagine however, as many somgs have been written following the western musical structure it would be dang hard to write one that does not have the "basic chord structure" of something written before.
One of my favorite "originals" we do has only two chords C & D.
Seems to be a favorite amoung our audience as well.
So take all this with a grain of salt, as it comes from a "two chord hack".

Honestly.... they bore the sh¡t outta me.... and, believe it or not, we play one of their tunes

I like a couple green day songs. The rant above was not authored by me, but by a friend of mine in NJ. He is like a walking encyclopedia of music, plays keyboards some, but is mainly a vocalist. He has been in several Beatles tribute bands and has won NYC's beatlefest battle of the bands numerous times. I keep telling him he should start a webcast, but he doesn't listen. He probably has the most extensive music collection ever.

First, all of rock & roll is stolen (or borrowed if it sounds better). People who are successful with it just find a way to make it sound fresh for fresh young ears. There is not one lick that any of us do that hasn't already been done. So come down off your high horse, you might break your neck (one can hope).

First, all of rock & roll is stolen (or borrowed if it sounds better). People who are successful with it just find a way to make it sound fresh for fresh young ears. There is not one lick that any of us do that hasn't already been done. So come down off your high horse, you might break your neck (one can hope).

Most profoud Jim, be careful or gigdoggy will be quoting you for his new book.

Eh...chord progressions are fair game, both in MY opinion AND the Library of Congress. You cannot copyright a chord progression.

That being said, I have "stolen" chord prog's, myself, &, imho, made better songs from the ones they were stolen from.

Melodies are quite another matter.

If I like a chord progression, & can come up with my own melody wihtin its confines, THAT means it's MY song.

Nuff sed.

Wanna know who LOVES Green Day?? Warner Bros!! They have made a TON of cash.

I have to agree 100% with JD. If chord progressions were really protected in such a way, new music wouldn't even exist. Didn't someone a while back post something like 35- songs (most of them hits) all of the same chord progressions ? Our song "Love me for me" ended up being the same progression. Hahaha. And to take it a step further, when we play that song live, we can do a medly of ours with Jason Mraz' "I'm Yours" and if we have Lady Reiko on stage, "No One" by Alicia Keys. All the same progression and key. It makes a 12 minute song, but nobody in the audience seems to care at all.

Reggae music strays very little from common chord progressions. It's very common for a reggae song to have 2-chords the whole song. I have personally written a couple like that myself. It's the lyrics, singing, and ear candy that separates them.

So all that stealing stuff is just whatever. If that's the case, then everybody steals from everybody.

Green Day is a group of talentless hacks with 3 chord songs, and political lyrics that are just made up and don't mean anything.

Well...that's one man's opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. They have proven themselves not only to be a worthy act, but they're the only act I can think of that has come out in the last 20 years to have lasted 20 years. THAT speaks volumes to me.

I only WISH I could be that lackluster & talentless & hackish!

Simple music is more difficult to pull off, Ryan. Maybe one day you'll see that. Slow music is tough, too. These guys are sticking pretty close to their Celtic roots, yet capturing a worldwide audience. Can your screaming or my wanderings do that? Not yet they can't. And just how many chords does your stuff use on average, anyway? 4? Big difference there!

They continually put out positive-sounding, upbeat, major keyed stuff. They amaze me with their simplicity. I often try too hard to be different, & it doesn't end up catching the average Joe's attention like the simple country ot Celtic or bluegrassy thing, as long as the act has a unique sound.

To pull off that 3 chord song (which has been done to death, in your opinion) & make it new-sounding to one's audience, proves the worth of a band. They have managed to do it, over & over again, without using the same melody over & over, or wearing themselves out with "style."

It's easy to junk up a tune with 5 or even 10 chords & various voicings, but chances are you'll lose your audience after 2 of them in a row, cuz your average audience isn't made up of virtuoso musicians, & they couldn't care less about anything but whether the song is MEMORABLE. Simplicity is memorable. The challenge is to make it sound new.

Prove that you can do it...just once, make a song & record it that will hit the ear of your everyday blue collar working stiff in a way that makes him wanna buy it & hear it again & again. Betcha can't, but if you can, you have a potential gold mine.

Very well said phil