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#87406 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:38 pm
I've recently completed having a dozen of my song demo's cut in Nashville with help from the awesome producer Kim Copeland and recorded at the world famous Funhouse Studios... I'm new to this pitch and plug game, so I would seriously like input into what my next best moves should be in getting my songs heard in the right circles... This self promotion thing online is a bit overwhelming and very time consuming... I wonder if I need professional pitch and plug people, a publisher first, or just what...??? Any and all help is greatly be appreciated... My demo's are posted at http://www.reverbnation.com/dougjackson - I'd love everyone's take on them if you can find a few minutes to listen in... Thanks, Doug

#87420 by CraigMaxim
Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:41 pm
Doug,

Listening to them now.

One quick point though. What's the point of this statement:

"All are of the highest quality anywhere around"

That's a bizarre statement. One of the first things any visitor is going to do is listen to at least your first song. You don't even have to "tell" people how high the quality of something is, when the song is there already for them to find that out for themselves. Also, as most of us learned in elementary school "Avoid absolute statements" - The trick to impressing people is not to set yourself up with "These are the highest quality demos around" which makes some people want to not like them then, just for the hell of it. Better is "I am very pleased with the job (blank) studios did for me on these demos." And then let people be blown away because they were even better than they hoped for.

First song is finished now.

Yes, very good quality. Good arrangements and good songwriting.

And I think it is wonderful that you were able to finance having a good producer and recording in an established studio, but hey brother... Are you selling an already known studio and producer, or selling your songwriting abilities?

Stay focused Danielsan, wax on, wax off. LOL - YOU are the commoditty.

Second one is rockin'... I like it.

Which leads to an important question...

Do you consider "Ain't takin anymore" to be your best song? Best song first, on players, CD's whatever, especially until you are known. Hit them out of the gate with your best, to keep their attention. For a CD for sale, you start with the first single usually, and end with as strong a song on the end of the CD to leave them wanting more.


I'm confused though....


12 songs? Are you planning on selling this as an album, to recoup costs or make a profit?

It's odd to me that you have invested so much, and you are not singing on any of these (or are you?) That's not a bad thing, but it struck me that you seem to want an album worth of material.

I've listened to 4 songs. They are very good, but I haven't heard the hit yet. I have a feeling you buried some of the best ones to lead up to a climax for the listeners? We'll see in a bit, but that is a BAD strategy. Most people aren't hanging around that long. They may come back, but you want to FORCE them to come back, by hitting them with the best song first. You have alot of good songs, so you don't have to worry about being anti-climatic.

Ok, song 5 is closer to what I am talking about. (oops, she blew the note on "need" at 2:50 - she was hesitant about the correct note. LOL)

Beautiful song.

7 is pretty too.

Some very nice songs here. You should be proud of this.

I question your song order though. Don't arrange a demo like you would a product for sale.

Ok, I'm a fan. I'll be listening to all the others when I get a chance today sometime. You made me want to come back! And I'm a tough critic. :-)

Put one of those others... 7 or a later one if they are even better (I'll find out later today) first, so you are just knocking their socks out. A&R people are going to assume you have placed your best song first. Comply with their assumptions. LOL

From a fellow songwriter... very good work brother!

I'm impressed.

.

#87429 by Chippy
Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:43 pm
Hi Doug.

Country is iffy at best with me but there are tracks that grab me. Excellent recordings as you say but I have to agree with Craig, it's not the best choice of words since people will look for errors. If they cannot find errors then they will judge something else.

So then you are a two person/vocal group? I like that.

Nice songs too. (Again I'm not the best judge on this). What to do now? How long is a piece of string? You have what it takes that is very evident and you have gone that one mile extra too.

I would ask questions like:
Are you playing locally?
What is your present audience?

It is a tough call and question Bro.
Best.

Chippy.

#87435 by Kramerguy
Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:57 pm
Hi Doug, I'm on my laptop right now and can't listen, but let me ask you -

You said you cut demos, then name-dropped what I'm assuming are a top-notch producer and studio...

So I'm confused, my understand of promotion is this:

1. write a buttload of songs (40-50)
2. cut demos in a studio, nothing top-notch, but clean and somewhat refined.
3. Float demos past fans, other musicians, and industry people, gather feedback-
4. refine most promising songs, re-do arrangements, bridges, hooks, whatever.. , drop less promising songs, etc... (vet the material)
5. cut new refined demos of the songs that stand out
6. float demos again, gather feedback same way as step 3
7 refine again
8. take 10-14 of the BEST songs left and go get a producer and then cut the album
9 then off to actually promote the album.


there's also the concern that there's 10 billion artists cutting albums and most can't GIVE them away, so promoting and selling are difficult on the best of days, you really need to be out gigging as the primary form of promotion, most of what you do online will fall upon deaf ears.

Hope that helps, I will check back and listen when I get the chance.

#87473 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:45 am
CraigMaxim wrote:Doug,

Listening to them now. From a fellow songwriter... very good work brother! I'm impressed.


Hey Craig, thanks for the compliments and an honest take on everything... I didn't start playing and writing yesterday, but as to this end run stuff, I'm pretty much a newbie... The song order...??? er uh... It's alphabetical... No purpose to it... lol... I hadn't thought of the importance of order, but I'm glad you brought it up... Honestly, I'm not sure which song would be the best of the bunch... I like em' all... lol... I'd like hear your idea on that... Most of this group is country flavored with the one alt. country/light rock tune... Personally I love the duets, but I realize the limited market for those and wanted to show some diversity in my writing like with the female tunes... I write it all... You asked some good questions about my purpose with this... Honestly, I really can't answer that in one neat packaged thought other than I love songwriting, and after some proddin' by many of my good music friends and a lot of others to get me to have demo's cut on a few of my songs, I just did it... Cost...??? Wasn't about cost... lol... Do I want to make this an album...??? Not really... Song selection was made by my producer from about 30, or so I gave them to look at... Next round likely will be 3-5 or so... I just wanted enough slightly different songs to show around and see if anyone that mattered in this business thought they were any good... So far, it seems like people like em'... That's a good plus for now.... We'll see what happens from here... Sure do thank you for the input... Let's play sometime brother... Break a string... Doug

#87474 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:06 am
Chippy wrote:Hi Doug. Country is iffy at best with me but there are tracks that grab me. Excellent recordings as you say but I have to agree with Craig, it's not the best choice of words since people will look for errors. If they cannot find errors then they will judge something else. So then you are a two person/vocal group? I like that. Nice songs too. (Again I'm not the best judge on this). What to do now? How long is a piece of string? You have what it takes that is very evident and you have gone that one mile extra too. I would ask questions like: Are you playing locally? What is your present audience? It is a tough call and question Bro.
Best. Chippy.


Hey Chip... I'm not performing on these demo's... I just write the songs, arrange the music, then kick back, and let the pro's do their magic... lol... Seriously, my vocal is more suited to blues and some good story telling type country songs... Far too baritone and rough to sing the ballads and pretty stuff... Some say I can sing a little, but they're well paid... lol... I don't play gigs anymore; just some outdoor jamfests occasionally... My desk is my biggest fan and it doesn't sneer at me for a sour note here and there... lol... Really, I've grown too soft for doin' bands and gigs anymore... I still love a good stage though... lol... I really appreciate your kind words on the songs... Go break a string... Doug

#87475 by Chippy
Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:34 am
Hey Doug.
What sheer and proper honesty, love every minute of that, kudos. Wishing you the very best of luck Doug seriously.

Erm my Cat breaks the strings around here LOL. :D Fancy that, a muso Cat. :D

Keep well.

Doug Jackson, Songwriter wrote:Hey Chip... I'm not performing on these demo's... I just write the songs, arrange the music, then kick back, and let the pro's do their magic... lol... Seriously, my vocal is more suited to blues and some good story telling type country songs... Far too baritone and rough to sing the ballads and pretty stuff... Some say I can sing a little, but they're well paid... lol... I don't play gigs anymore; just some outdoor jamfests occasionally... My desk is my biggest fan and it doesn't sneer at me for a sour note here and there... lol... Really, I've grown too soft for doin' bands and gigs anymore... I still love a good stage though... lol... I really appreciate your kind words on the songs... Go break a string... Doug

#87476 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:35 am
Kramerguy wrote:Hi Doug, I'm on my laptop right now and can't listen, but let me ask you - You said you cut demos, then name-dropped what I'm assuming are a top-notch producer and studio... So I'm confused, my understand of promotion is this:
1. write a buttload of songs (40-50)
2. cut demos in a studio, nothing top-notch, but clean and somewhat refined.
3. Float demos past fans, other musicians, and industry people, gather feedback-
4. refine most promising songs, re-do arrangements, bridges, hooks, whatever.. , drop less promising songs, etc... (vet the material)
5. cut new refined demos of the songs that stand out
6. float demos again, gather feedback same way as step 3
7 refine again
8. take 10-14 of the BEST songs left and go get a producer and then cut the album
9 then off to actually promote the album.

there's also the concern that there's 10 billion artists cutting albums and most can't GIVE them away, so promoting and selling are difficult on the best of days, you really need to be out gigging as the primary form of promotion, most of what you do online will fall upon deaf ears.

Hope that helps, I will check back and listen when I get the chance.


Hey Kramer... Yes, everything you said is true and I know that's the usual, or should i say, accepted way of doing things in the music world of today... I'm new at this and read a long time ago all the songwriting steps in refining what you eventually want to go out front with after all the tweaking and fine tuning before hitting the road promoting it... I'm pretty sure musicians and artist's finally outnumber insurance and car salesmen combined for the first time in history... lol... It would appear a daunting task for any songwriter to get a break now... But, my producer said something that caught my attention... My songs are just different enough from mainstream music to find homes... Not all of them, sure... But, and since, there are a thousand new songs produced every year by the top 100 artists, with even more counting lesser knowns, who knows... I might get lucky... Thank you for the tips brother, that's all very good advice.... Now, go break a string... Doug

#87494 by Kramerguy
Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:37 pm
Hey doug, I just got a chance to listen to your stuff, I don't like country, typically, but I do admit, it's really good music. I don't know if it stands out from everything else country (since I don't listen to it normally, it's impossible to say..)

Be careful though, my experience with producers is that they are weasels and snakes, try to wear multiple hats to charge you more, and they ALWAYS want to bring in "studio" musicians on your dime, to "speed things up", which is a crock. Now im just on a tangent lol..

You should go register with TAXI and see if you can get any publishers to pick you up also, it's a great way to get label interest.

#87531 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:37 pm
Kramerguy wrote:Hey doug, I just got a chance to listen to your stuff, I don't like country, typically, but I do admit, it's really good music. I don't know if it stands out from everything else country (since I don't listen to it normally, it's impossible to say..)

Be careful though, my experience with producers is that they are weasels and snakes, try to wear multiple hats to charge you more, and they ALWAYS want to bring in "studio" musicians on your dime, to "speed things up", which is a crock. Now im just on a tangent lol..

You should go register with TAXI and see if you can get any publishers to pick you up also, it's a great way to get label interest.


Hey I appreciate it brother Kramer... I'm going to refresh my ancient taxi acct this week... I didn't have any prob's with my producer because I knew what I wanted and had most of it mapped out with them ahead of time... Aside from one song we rearranged to trim serious time off the raw demo, on only minor tweaks were needed on the rest by the time I got there and we were into it... In my opinion, the session musicians were sharp, and got the feel of what I wanted with and from the producer quickly... So, in my case, it did save a lot of time; a whole half day in the studio planned for wasn't needed... I never planned to set in my own sessions, so that wasn't an issue... You have a good point there about saving on that... It's your money, your call on that...

Having seen it all in motion now, it's not hard to see how some producers might squeeze a bit too hard for that last drop of milk... Really all depends on what you're wanting... The variables and options are endless... I'm no expert, but I'd think you work out the details of what you want to do and get done first, then the only question is how much... It's your money, get it without mayo if that's how ya likes it... lol... Thanks for the input my friend, good luck and go break a string... Doug

#87709 by fisherman bob
Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:56 am
Sounds like pop country to me. I didn't hear anything that jumped out at me and grabbed my attention. I'm sure there may be some tunes here that some famous artists would do much better justice to. Hopefully somehow somebody big wants to do a version of one of these...

#87740 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:54 pm
fisherman bob wrote:Sounds like pop country to me. I didn't hear anything that jumped out at me and grabbed my attention. I'm sure there may be some tunes here that some famous artists would do much better justice to. Hopefully somehow somebody big wants to do a version of one of these...


Hey Bob... You're right Bob, most of these songs are geared more or less to the pop country sound... My producer selected these based on what they felt might get the most notice... I was leaning to several other more "flavorful" songs, but in the end just went with their experience... I like all of my songs, they're all fun and passionate songs to do and I'm setting on dozens and dozens more that haven't been done and many in the works... So, I'm okay with this catalog run... I appreciate your take on this... Break a string... Doug

#87748 by philbymon
Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:30 pm
I can't get reverbnation to play on my 'puter, for some reason...

#87755 by DougJacksonSongwriter1
Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:13 pm
philbymon wrote:I can't get reverbnation to play on my 'puter, for some reason...


I can't help you with that... It works fine on mine, and also on the little widgets I've embedded on a few other sites... Have you checked the FAQ section for possible solutions...???

#87761 by fisherman bob
Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:41 pm
I'm a bass player and I have never broken a string yet. I hope it never happens. I saw a bass player break a string one time and it ripped some skin off one of his fingers. He put on a new string and it did the same thing, must have been a burr on it somewhere. He ended up playing the entire gig with three strings. It was amazing. He didn't miss a beat.

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