General Music Chat

anybody catch the whole 'we just pull over the ones that look like they just came from mexico' comment sheriff joe made this past weekend?

this guy scares the hell out of me and I'm not even mexican/latino. any other politician who said "I'm proud to be compared to hitler" would have been run out of town on a rail. anyone care/notice?

I think it's admirable that he is willing to go to great personal risk to inforce the laws. Aparently the people who elect him repeatedly agree.
I also wish our state would stop sucking up to criminals.
Make em work or let em starve.
I've worked many a day in temps >100 and <30 to pay taxes to feed and house criminals for whom it is considered inhumaine for them to work in the same conditions I do.
No, no sympathy for criminals here.

no person is all bad or all good... I like the idea of chain gangs... but you said 100 degrees... it regularly hits 120 here in the summer and that's ok if it's your choice but IMO anything above 90 (depending on your body mass) is verging on 'cruel and unusual'.
either way... that's not an argument I wish to defend/engage in...

you say 'no sympathy for criminals' but what about american citizens that are by no means criminal at all? we're talking about racial profiling. How would you feel about someone stopping all people less than 6' tall, and tossing them in jail despite having a valid drivers license... but not having a birth certificate? do you carry your birth cert every day?

again, this has nothing to do with criminals. at the point where you pull someone over bcuz they 'look like they just came from mexico' you have no idea whether that person is criminal or just a hardworking american who happens to get lumped in with some unpopular people.

when it happens to americans... that's when I get disturbed.

what did that one famous poet say "and then they came for me and there was no one left to yell".

That's AZ for ya! I'm not a fan of Sheriff Joe at all but illegal immigration is definitely a problem too.

Mike I share your concerns, and profiling is wrong, particularly in a melting pot such as ours.

That said, I admire some of his positions, like not having taxpayers pay for salt and pepper. They need a balanced meal, but why should the taxpayer pay for it to be seasoned the way they prefer? When asked about the tents, I also like his answer about "Our military fighting in the desert regularly work in such tempratures, and with full body armor on." If it's cruel and unusual punishment, then it is cruel and unusual punishment we ask of our military. I don't buy into that. If there are prisoners facing health risks from heat strokes, then that is another matter, but if anyone has died from the heat in his camps, I am unaware of it.

But I think he is a victim of his own fame, and has probably upped the ante sometimes just to get attention and sell more "Sheriff Joe" merchandise.

It's important to have a balance in just about all things. We should not go out of our way to provide comfort and priveledges to prisoners, but neither should they be abused.

But the whole legal system in America probably needs to be overhalled. Get non-violent people out of prisons. Stop the rampant corruption by guards and prison workers.

Speed up the death sentences, or at least the appeals process, of those cases where DNA evidence is conclusive. Get the innocent people (usually minorities) out of prison, by increasing DNA testing for old cases where it wasn't available at the time.

Reform the Juvenile Justice System to be restorative and rehabilitative, utilizing alternative treatment programs, rather than just locking kids away for 5 and 10 years and more, and merely teaching them to be professional criminals. Most of these kids have untreated mental health problems, and have been abused themselves, often for years, and by their own worthless parents. Maybe the parents should be paying for these rehabilitative services out of their own pockets too, when they are shown to be negligent parents?

.

When asked about the tents, I also like his answer about "Our military fighting in the desert regularly work in such tempratures, and with full body armor on." If it's cruel and unusual punishment, then it is cruel and unusual punishment we ask of our military. I don't buy into that. If there are prisoners facing health risks from heat strokes, then that is another matter, but if anyone has died from the heat in his camps, I am unaware of it.

no prob here with the lack of salt and pepper... but let me rebuttal you on the tent argument. Here's why I think you are comparing apples to peaches... A) if a military man really wants out - he can get out B) our military men go through rigorous physical training and monitoring that would put them in a lot better shape to handle such physically demanding living quarters C) most of them are young D) they have doctors (medical personell) living among them.

I think yours is a good argument... but throw me out in those tents and I'm certain I wouldn't last a week. My nephew had a stroke at age 18 because he worked outside for too long (not in jail... not even in AZ, in WI!) Not heat stroke... A REAL STROKE. His heart stopped. He was in a hospital for weeks.

So with that in mind... and the reputation tent city has for lack of medical care... I would lean towards the cruel and unusual argument.






But I think he is a victim of his own fame, and has probably upped the ante sometimes just to get attention and sell more "Sheriff Joe" merchandise.

It's important to have a balance in just about all things. We should not go out of our way to provide comfort and priveledges to prisoners, but neither should they be abused.

But the whole legal system in America probably needs to be overhalled. Get non-violent people out of prisons. Stop the rampant corruption by guards and prison workers.

Speed up the death sentences, or at least the appeals process, of those cases where DNA evidence is conclusive. Get the innocent people (usually minorities) out of prison, by increasing DNA testing for old cases where it wasn't available at the time.

Reform the Juvenile Justice System to be restorative and rehabilitative, utilizing alternative treatment programs, rather than just locking kids away for 5 and 10 years and more, and merely teaching them to be professional criminals. Most of these kids have untreated mental health problems, and have been abused themselves, often for years, and by their own worthless parents. Maybe the parents should be paying for these rehabilitative services out of their own pockets too, when they are shown to be negligent parents?

.[/quote]

"But I think he is a victim of his own fame, and has probably upped the ante sometimes just to get attention and sell more "Sheriff Joe" merchandise. "
you should read the story about the young man who was coerced into supposedly meeting with 'mafia' members who told him 'there's no getting out... you know what we do to people who want to get out, right'. These mafia members (sheriffs deputies) told him he had to kill sheriff joe... then when he got out of jail and went to meet with them: surprise the media was everywhere and there was sheriff joe to confront him about their assasination attempt. let there be no doubt.. the guy loves the media. He is no victim of it - he plays it like a violin.

He's apparently 'investigating' the man who ran against him in the last election. His public image has been damaged and will likely not recover and guess what - they found nothing.

While I don't care for illegal immigration, and I'm all for enforcing our laws against it... at what cost? I've read that ALL types of violent crime have skyrocketed in AZ due to personnel being diverted to the border crisis. The police response time has tripled.
Yet we spend tons of our tax dollars rounding up the illegals who are WORKING????? I think a little re-prioritization might be in order.

Now, nothing is ever ALL ONE WAY. I like the idea that the guy reads 'bedtime' stories to inmates. I don't mind the pink underwear thing except for the media attention it got the guy. I like the fact that he's apparently offering education to inmates. I don't have a problem with chain gangs. I don't like illegals who come here and commit crimes just to return to mexico...

it scares the hell out of me that someone with his power can literally destroy his opposition (who narrowly lost btw) and get away with it.

Mike,

Don't misunderstand me, I meant "victim of his own fame" to mean that he was "his own victim" - He got caught up in his own fame, and is making bad choices because of it. Not that he is a real victim of something beyond his control. Of course he likes the fame. I pointed out that he is more interested in selling his own merchandise at this point. He's probably dreaming of a book and movie deal by now.

But it's hard for me to just completely trash him altogether. I want the taxpayer saving money and not financing the incarcerated. Many, if not most Americans, are going to support the idea of "Maybe if prison is more distatsteful than honest work, some of them will not be in such a hurry to return to prison life.

.

Mike,

Don't misunderstand me, I meant "victim of his own fame" to mean that he was "his own victim" - He got caught up in his own fame, and is making bad choices because of it. Not that he is a real victim of something beyond his control. Of course he likes the fame. I pointed out that he is more interested in selling his own merchandise at this point. He's probably dreaming of a book and movie deal by now.

But it's hard for me to just completely trash him altogether. I want the taxpayer saving money and not financing the incarcerated. Many, if not most Americans, are going to support the idea of "Maybe if prison is more distatsteful than honest work, some of them will not be in such a hurry to return to prison life.

.

as usual craig... we have little to debate cause we both seem to think on the sm plain. I misunderstood your media comment... that one's on me.

He may or may not be a victim of his own fame, but the mafia story, from what you've reported, screams "entrapment" to me. Good ol' boy sheriff or not, he's breaking the law by using those tactics on ppl, while it obviously does enhance his own fame, & our fine media seems to just eat that sh*t up, doesn't it?

Racial profiling is also unconstitutional, & it's brought to us by those who would say we are guilty until proven innocent. Yet another fine tool in the arsenal of those who would have us all toe their personal line in all things.

When we get caught up in the concept of "crime prevention," we often forget that this invariably opens the door to fascist tactics like those mentioned above.

This country is not nearly the "melting pot" we claim it to be, & barely competes with the mixture that exists in other countries, however proud we are of spouting off about it. Throughout the world there are countries jam-packed with racial & tribal & religious variances, & they haven't the troubles that we have, in many cases. Perhaps it's our societal mentality that's causing so much untreated crime, while we busy ourselves with "crime prevention" to the point that it removes our civil, human, & constitutionally guaranteed rights.

We seem to ignore actual crimes in favor of "preventing" it, lately. I fear that this trend is becoming way too prevalent in a society that claims to have so many "freedoms." Are we "free" to drive home from a night out with dinner, without having our papers checked by the drug & alcohol police? Hell, I've been stopped on my way home from WORK to face these nazis. If you're smoking a cigarette on your front porch in MD, & using a Bud can as an ashtray, you can be arrested for drinking in public. They don't even need to check your blood alcohol levels. This actually happened to a friend of mine - in 1974! Things have gotten far worse since then. White guy, lost, driving in a black neighborhood - this indicates he's looking for drugs & needs to be pulled over & checked out. Black guy driving through a white neighborhood - better pull him over & check him out. Random cars coming through the border - check 'em out for hidden illegals (yeah, I can see this, & yes, it happened to me & my wife & her parents when we went into Mexico). INS & local cop raids on restaurants to spot check for illegals? "Lemme see your papers, son!"

This country was founded upon personal freedoms, but we seem to demand their removal on an almost daily basis. I never fully cooperate with anyone who stops me without just cause, & I always question their methods to assure them that I am worried about my freedom as an American citizen. They don't like answering questions before you provide them with your identification, either! I've had a cop throw anti-drinking propaganda pamphlets into my car with disgust when this occured, one time when I was at a drunk-driver spot-check. Bastids! They had NO RIGHT to stop me, according to our founding fathers, yet there I was, FORCED to submit to this sh*t by the Supreme Court? If I had thrown the pamphlets back at them, I would have been arrested for littering or assault. Why should I allow them to toss their sh*t into my car? (I'd have raised a bigger stink than I did at the time, but I was a little tipsy, & figured that discretion was the better part of valor at that point!)

Prosecute the hell out of criminals. Leave me the hell alone until I break the law. THAT's the way things are supposed to work, & it royally pisses me off when things don't go that way. This trend assures me that, yes, we ARE becoming a fascist society, & when the final steps are taken in this direction, we will need to have our arsenals in place to fight back, & I fear we'll need a LOT of help from the rest of the "free" world, too!

He may or may not be a victim of his own fame, but the mafia story, from what you've reported, screams "entrapment" to me. Good ol' boy sheriff or not, he's breaking the law by using those tactics on ppl, while it obviously does enhance his own fame, & our fine media seems to just eat that sh*t up, doesn't it?

Racial profiling is also unconstitutional, & it's brought to us by those who would say we are guilty until proven innocent. Yet another fine tool in the arsenal of those who would have us all toe their personal line in all things.

When we get caught up in the concept of "crime prevention," we often forget that this invariably opens the door to fascist tactics like those mentioned above.

This country is not nearly the "melting pot" we claim it to be, & barely competes with the mixture that exists in other countries, however proud we are of spouting off about it. Throughout the world there are countries jam-packed with racial & tribal & religious variances, & they haven't the troubles that we have, in many cases. Perhaps it's our societal mentality that's causing so much untreated crime, while we busy ourselves with "crime prevention" to the point that it removes our civil, human, & constitutionally guaranteed rights.

We seem to ignore actual crimes in favor of "preventing" it, lately. I fear that this trend is becoming way too prevalent in a society that claims to have so many "freedoms." Are we "free" to drive home from a night out with dinner, without having our papers checked by the drug & alcohol police? Hell, I've been stopped on my way home from WORK to face these nazis. If you're smoking a cigarette on your front porch in MD, & using a Bud can as an ashtray, you can be arrested for drinking in public. They don't even need to check your blood alcohol levels. This actually happened to a friend of mine - in 1974! Things have gotten far worse since then. White guy, lost, driving in a black neighborhood - this indicates he's looking for drugs & needs to be pulled over & checked out. Black guy driving through a white neighborhood - better pull him over & check him out. Random cars coming through the border - check 'em out for hidden illegals (yeah, I can see this, & yes, it happened to me & my wife & her parents when we went into Mexico). INS & local cop raids on restaurants to spot check for illegals? "Lemme see your papers, son!"

This country was founded upon personal freedoms, but we seem to demand their removal on an almost daily basis. I never fully cooperate with anyone who stops me without just cause, & I always question their methods to assure them that I am worried about my freedom as an American citizen. They don't like answering questions before you provide them with your identification, either! I've had a cop throw anti-drinking propaganda pamphlets into my car with disgust when this occured, one time when I was at a drunk-driver spot-check. Bastids! They had NO RIGHT to stop me, according to our founding fathers, yet there I was, FORCED to submit to this sh*t by the Supreme Court? If I had thrown the pamphlets back at them, I would have been arrested for littering or assault. Why should I allow them to toss their sh*t into my car? (I'd have raised a bigger stink than I did at the time, but I was a little tipsy, & figured that discretion was the better part of valor at that point!)

Prosecute the hell out of criminals. Leave me the hell alone until I break the law. THAT's the way things are supposed to work, & it royally pisses me off when things don't go that way. This trend assures me that, yes, we ARE becoming a fascist society, & when the final steps are taken in this direction, we will need to have our arsenals in place to fight back, & I fear we'll need a LOT of help from the rest of the "free" world, too!

many good points philby. need look no further than the american indian to see how we treat the 'others'.



the hardest pill for me to swallow is the focus on the 'illegal immigrants' rather than the 'illegal employers'. I've never once heard of a biz getting shut down bcuz of hiring illegals but I hear every day about raids on biz's where they find 100 illegals... lemme guess... it's not the biz's fault? these illegals fool them with fake info? then how do the police arrest and determine they are illegal so easily????????????????????????????????

Sherriff Joe is my hero I agree with him 150% he is a real man! He stands up for what he believes in. If you don't like the penalties in his state don't freekin break the law and you will be fine. Why should doing time be pleasant. The next thing you know, you bleeding hearts are gonna want to give them cable and a big screen tv with surround sound. Its not a hotel. If its good enough for the men and woman that are fighting for our freedom its good enough for the criminals.

hey haley... i respect your right to your own opinion... but ask that you reconsider calling me a bleading heart liberal... lest I start calling you names... at which point neither of us is influenced by the other, cause we can right each other off as 'dickheads'.

I better not be on the "bleeding hearts" side of that comment.

I already said that prison should not be like a lengthy hotel stay. It's supposed to suck. It's punishment.

But I agree with Mike that profiling is WRONG.

And I agree with Phil that ROADBLOCKS as sobriety checks are WRONG.


.

Cant do the time, dont do the crime.
They can road block me all they want. I dont drink and drive. Used to, but learned better. I see so many innocents mangled by drunken fools, I think a mandatory 12 months on the first offense would not be too harsh.
Our enjoyment of alcohol is not worth anothers life. I have too dodge the drunks on my way home from the hospital anytime I work 1500 - 2300 on a Friday or Saturday. My life is worth more than that.
Designate a driver or stay home.

They can road block me all they want.

Bullsh*t!!!

That's like Gestapo sh*t. You wanna park the police car on a road side and pull people over because they are swerving, fine. But you don't shut down an entire road, to pull nazi sh*t on the public.

High choloesterol foods kill many times more people than drunk drivers do. Shall we make butter illegal? Should they check your table at dinner, since it is in the interest of your health and safety?

It's all degrees. It may get there one day. Flavored cigarettes are now illegal. What next?


As to drunk driving... I've always believed that a $20 cab ride is a hell of alot cheaper than a $2500 DUI, so I have NEVER had a DUI. But you don't inconvenience EVERY passenger on the entire road, merely to increase revenues, and get more federal dollars, which is what they are really doing, as far as I'm concerned.

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