Musician Forum - Band Discussion Board - BandMix

I see ads up here to make you fret board wizards. This the greatest thing you can do to make you a stronger player...
Most guitar books teach you positional playing, to start.
Most violin books teach shifting right off the bat.
Guitar has such a long neck that it is a daunting task to learn shifting.
One of the greatest lessons any young or older guitar player learn is :
Single string playing with effort on shifting smoothly.
double string playing with effort on shifting smoothly.
Combining these with full positional shifting.
I know some some of you are gonna say I'm full of sh*t , but when the light when on for me,many years ago, my playing advanced beyond frustration to a different way of playing,very quickly.

I've seen guitar lesson videos where they show and talk about those exercises. Probably something I need to look into. Thanks Glen.

GONGHEAD wrote:I see ads up here to make you fret board wizards. This the greatest thing you can do to make you a stronger player...
Most guitar books teach you positional playing, to start.
Most violin books teach shifting right off the bat.
Guitar has such a long neck that it is a daunting task to learn shifting.
One of the greatest lessons any young or older guitar player learn is :
Single string playing with effort on shifting smoothly.
double string playing with effort on shifting smoothly.
Combining these with full positional shifting.
I know some some of you are gonna say I'm full of sh*t , but when the light when on for me,many years ago, my playing advanced beyond frustration to a different way of playing,very quickly.

^^ Good post!

One thing that helped me to memorize every position on the neck is Theory of Intervals (The spacing between notes in a scales/modes/chords). Once I learned that.... I can visualize any scale on the neck in a single string or multiples starting on any fret. The thing I love about knowing every note on the fretboard is that you can do a solo a million different ways. Its definitely a great tool for lead shredder guitarists.

jsantos wrote:Its definitely a great tool for lead shredder guitarists.

It's actually, IMO, probably the #1 thing ANY guitar player needs to know. You need to know your board. Even if you're just a rhythm player, knowing the board will allow you to play chords you might not play otherwise.



I do not my fretboard the way many of you know it. And it's disappointing; it makes it more difficult to get original ideas out of my head, and it makes it more difficult to improvise solos.

As an example: Recently, our band decided to add "Smoke On The Water" to our repertoire. I set out to learn the album solo note-for-note, but until then I figured when we're at rehearsal I could just wing it and improvise something. Well, the song is in C - a key I don't solo in very often (most stuff I run into is in D or E). I had no idea what I was doing and I was all over the map playing all sorts of wrong notes. It was pathetic.

This is something I've decided to rectify, and we'll see how it goes. I've had some theory in the past with a previous guitar instructor, so I know the basis for the scales and modes and how intervals work. But I don't have anything memorized, and that's going to take some time.

My feeling is, as an intermediate guitar player you should at least be able to visualize the "correct" notes once you've established the key you're playing in. If you know the song is in C, you should at least be able to see all of the notes you're supposed to be playing - in all positions anywhere on the board. Advanced players should be able to pick a particular mode - say Dorian - and see those notes. Those spots should jump off the fretboard like they're highlighted in neon...

ColorsFade wrote:

jsantos wrote:Its definitely a great tool for lead shredder guitarists.

It's actually, IMO, probably the #1 thing ANY guitar player needs to know. You need to know your board. Even if you're just a rhythm player, knowing the board will allow you to play chords you might not play otherwise.



I do not my fretboard the way many of you know it. And it's disappointing; it makes it more difficult to get original ideas out of my head, and it makes it more difficult to improvise solos.

As an example: Recently, our band decided to add "Smoke On The Water" to our repertoire. I set out to learn the album solo note-for-note, but until then I figured when we're at rehearsal I could just wing it and improvise something. Well, the song is in C - a key I don't solo in very often (most stuff I run into is in D or E). I had no idea what I was doing and I was all over the map playing all sorts of wrong notes. It was pathetic.

This is something I've decided to rectify, and we'll see how it goes. I've had some theory in the past with a previous guitar instructor, so I know the basis for the scales and modes and how intervals work. But I don't have anything memorized, and that's going to take some time.

My feeling is, as an intermediate guitar player you should at least be able to visualize the "correct" notes once you've established the key you're playing in. If you know the song is in C, you should at least be able to see all of the notes you're supposed to be playing - in all positions anywhere on the board. Advanced players should be able to pick a particular mode - say Dorian - and see those notes. Those spots should jump off the fretboard like they're highlighted in neon...

^^^ I exactly know what you mean. Knowing theory won't make you more musically talented but it serves like a musical reference library or road map of notes on the neck. Having said that the key of the song is on C, you will automatically visualize D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian, B Locrian, C Ionian, A Blues Pentatonic, and so on.... The fretboard notes light up.

ColorsFade wrote:Recently, our band decided to add "Smoke On The Water" to our repertoire. I set out to learn the album solo note-for-note, but until then I figured when we're at rehearsal I could just wing it and improvise something. Well, the song is in C

Why is your band playing the song in C? I have been playing it for years and it is in G. Blackmore said in an interview that he has never seen any band play that song correctly, as, for the opening riff, he plucks all three strings per chord with three separate fingers simultaneously to get THAT sound, while everybody else just uses a pick and plays the power chords. I tried it and it DOES make a difference.
G Bb C G Bb C# C G Bb C Bb G (opening riff)
Gm Gm Gm Gm F Gm (verse)
C Ab G C Ab (and back to opening riff) (chorus)

The lead follows the same rhythm as the verse and almost the chorus. It goes through the verse line four times.
When it comes to the chorus part, it stays in C twice as long and then goes to F (and holds it) and then to G. It does this twice. Then back to the opening riff.

The G's are all minors but on power chords, it doesn't matter as you are only playing the I, V, and VIII (octave) notes.

ratsass wrote:

ColorsFade wrote:Recently, our band decided to add "Smoke On The Water" to our repertoire. I set out to learn the album solo note-for-note, but until then I figured when we're at rehearsal I could just wing it and improvise something. Well, the song is in C

Why is your band playing the song in C? I have been playing it for years and it is in G. Blackmore said in an interview that he has never seen any band play that song correctly, as, for the opening riff, he plucks all three strings per chord with three separate fingers simultaneously to get THAT sound, while everybody else just uses a pick and plays the power chords. I tried it and it DOES make a difference.
G Bb C G Bb C# C G Bb C Bb G (opening riff)
Gm Gm Gm Gm F Gm (verse)
C Ab G C Ab (and back to opening riff) (chorus)

The lead follows the same rhythm as the verse and almost the chorus. It goes through the verse line four times.
When it comes to the chorus part, it stays in C twice as long and then goes to F (and holds it) and then to G. It does this twice. Then back to the opening riff.

The G's are all minors but on power chords, it doesn't matter as you are only playing the I, V, and VIII (octave) notes.

My mistake. It's G.

But I've never seen it played with the I. Just the V and VIII.



I mean, I've seen tabs where they have it as I,V,VIII - but that sounds totally wrong to my ears. The root note I shouldn't be there.



As for picking - obviously the studio version is fingerstyle. But I've seen Blackmore play it with a pick and with fingers (pick version here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp_VYogfyTo. I've seen Steve Morse play it with a pick in some performances, and sometimes with his fingers (you can find both versions on YouTube). So I don't sweat that much; I think it sounds pretty cool with a pick as long as you're leaving the root I note off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4YHvJYQAI

Yeah, CF, I believe on the studio and live (Made in Japan), he was using his pick on the I and his middle and ring fingers on the V and VIII for that plucking sound but later on just went with whatever he felt like doing at the time. And that's just on the G chord. The Bb and C were just two string chords like you said.

Smoke is in G


Duh........................................

The thing I read about the song was that he plucked the two strings with his fingers to get the instant attack of the sig riff.

Ive tryed finger picking it when weve played it and it sounds better than using a pick.

I love when folks request it and we pull it out of the hat and nail it, its such an easy song to solo over.

This friday we played Highway Star for the first time in a long time, I much prefer it over Smoke. But Smoke is such a classic riff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ColorsFade wrote:

jsantos wrote:Its definitely a great tool for lead shredder guitarists.

Even if you're just a rhythm player,

I dont mean to bust on your otherwise excellent post, Colors...

however...

The seeming subordination of rhythm guitar players caught my eye, in an adverse sort of way, as I would trade any number of neck shreddin' lead players for one masterful rhythm guitarist.

Howlin'

jw123 wrote:This friday we played Highway Star for the first time in a long time, I much prefer it over Smoke. But Smoke is such a classic riff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back in my much younger days when I still had a smooth voice with lots of range, we did "Child in Time" with me singing and playing keys. It was the first song I ever did that I remember really impressed my brother.

Yes, I was going to say that too... SOW is not in C.... or wasn't originally... and it is "plucked" using the root, 5 octive (bar chord)... That must have been a great time trying to play that in C...

LOL... I just tried it... hahahaha your a brave man sir!!

X!

I just tried it too in C. Yeah, mmm... that's different..

I have not been playing it in C. So don't go hurting yourself on account of my slip.

I thought it was in the key of C. I am not a theory graduate like the rest of you.