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Interesting!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/22/california.pot.tax/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

It would be even more interesting if the United States legalized marijuana, period. This country would stand to save umpteen billions of dollars and produce umpteen billions in tax revenue. Being arrested for posession of pot is the DUMBEST THING we ever legislated. I don't personally smoke pot, never have, never will. I'm not a drug user of any kind. This country has wasted an ungodly amount of money and manpower in this "War on drugs". It's time we get practical and smart and STOP legislating morality and start putting only real criminals in jail.

No doubt billions would be saved but the problem is that it's looked at as a gateway drug. People fear that if it is legalized then users will be inclined to use harder drugs (which is mostly a myth but has merit for some people). Also, people fear that harder drugs will then become legalized. I certainly don't want that; there are good reasons why cocaine and heroin should not be legalized. But legalizing or decriminalizing pot would have some positive impact, as well as negative, just like repealing prohibition did.

fisherman bob wrote:It would be even more interesting if the United States legalized marijuana, period. This country would stand to save umpteen billions of dollars and produce umpteen billions in tax revenue. Being arrested for posession of pot is the DUMBEST THING we ever legislated. I don't personally smoke pot, never have, never will. I'm not a drug user of any kind. This country has wasted an ungodly amount of money and manpower in this "War on drugs". It's time we get practical and smart and STOP legislating morality and start putting only real criminals in jail.

I have smoked pot, for several years in my past, and let's just say MOST everything you read about it is propaganda - It's FAR LESS dangerous than alcohol and I agree with everything you said.

I haven't smoked in more than 10 years, but I sure as hell will get a load on for old times sake the day they legalize it!

jimmydanger wrote:No doubt billions would be saved but the problem is that it's looked at as a gateway drug.

Then ban alcohol, because it's a "gateway" drug too. Alcohol -> pot -> hard stuff.

But we all know how well banning alcohol works.

I'm fine with legalized MJ, as long as it has the same restrictions as alcohol - no driving, not operating machinery, no coming to work stoned. The last thing I want is to end up on an operating table to get my spleen taken out, and die because my doc toked out 15 minutes prior, and ends up cutting a major artery...

Colors, I appreciate your position but your logic is flawed. Alcohol is not viewed as a gateway drug because it is legal and sold in public places. Pot is considered such because it is illegal and sold in places where other harder drugs might also be sold. The vast majority of alcohol users have never tried pot and have no interest in doing so. Likewise, the majority of pot smokers have never tried harder drugs and don't intend to, but it's a matter of perception, not facts.

Too bad it isn't "the vast majority of pot smokers have never tried alcohol".

I have seen more decent people WRECKED by alcohol than you can imagine.

People that smoke too much go to sleep or eat too much and that's about it.

Nothing funnier than the old films on REFER MADNESS.
I always ask myself, "what kind are they smoking?"..

jimmydanger wrote:Colors, I appreciate your position but your logic is flawed.

It's not my logic. That's the point.

What I was trying to say was - the whole point of a "gateway" drug is kind of silly.

And it doesn't really matter if it's illegal or not, that's irrelevant. It either inhibits your behavior or it doesn't. Alcohol is not different than pot. One is illegal, one is not, but they're essentially the same thing.

I think we're on the same side of the fence but debating semantics. Pot and alcohol are both drugs and as such both affect the user, but in very different ways, so it's difficult to agree that they are "essentially the same thing". Using that logic you could argue that aspirin and heroin are both drugs (and both pain killers) so they are the same, but we know that is not true. I agree on the gateway myth being absurd, but again it's a matter of perception, not hard facts, that drive things like laws.

jimmydanger wrote:Using that logic you could argue that aspirin and heroin are both drugs

They are both drugs. There's nothing to argue about there.

The real question - the thing that's important - is establishing the degree to which a drug can help or hinder a person.

Aspirin is a drug that helps. Heroine does not.

Alcohol has a lot of negative side effects. But we measure things in degrees of good or bad. Alcohol has a small degree of effect, and requires repeated ingestion to get to toxic and dangerous levels. So, we work with degrees...

fisherman bob wrote:It would be even more interesting if the United States legalized marijuana, period. This country would stand to save umpteen billions of dollars and produce umpteen billions in tax revenue. Being arrested for posession of pot is the DUMBEST THING we ever legislated. I don't personally smoke pot, never have, never will. I'm not a drug user of any kind. This country has wasted an ungodly amount of money and manpower in this "War on drugs". It's time we get practical and smart and STOP legislating morality and start putting only real criminals in jail.

(I know you aren't one bob but...)
silly pot smokers... the last thing you want is legalization cause guess what?
the minute they legalize it they will come up with a quick method for testing for it, then they will inevitably create 'stoned in public' and 'operating while stoned' laws that will easily catch you and fine you and make you at fault in any accident.

then phillip morris will add nicotine to it and get you addicted.

then the price will eventually meet what is sells for on the street now due to gigantic lawsuits re 'I didn't know it would give me cancer'.

i think it's silly that my tax dollars pay to put these ppul in jail... but all you have to do is legalize and they will only be criminal by a dif def.

just a dif group of likely more corrupt ppul profiting.

btw... you probably are a drug user. prozac counts. caffein counts. viagra counts. asperin counts.

just you aren't on the illegal side of the fence.

if pot smokers had a brain they would be crying only for more relaxed laws re the distribution and growing of that crap.

i laugh my ass off at the fact that you can manufacture a medicine that is known to have potential deadly side effects, and even have some ppul die, and get off virtually scott free... but grow a hemp plant and face a felony conviction!

ColorsFade wrote:

jimmydanger wrote:Using that logic you could argue that aspirin and heroin are both drugs

They are both drugs. There's nothing to argue about there.

The real question - the thing that's important - is establishing the degree to which a drug can help or hinder a person.

Aspirin is a drug that helps. Heroine does not.

Weed is a drug that helps. Weed does not....lol!


The terms you guys are looking for is narcotic

Drugs = legal
Narcotics = illegal

Those are streets terms, not medical terms.

Sorry Dave, you're wrong. From wikipedia:

"Use of the word "narcotic" to refer to any illegal or unlawfully possessed drug including marijuana and cocaine is common worldwide, although these substances are not considered narcotics in a medical context. The central drug policy making body within the United Nations, for instance, is the Commission on Narcotic Drugs, although the United Nations officially defines a narcotic drug to be "any of the substances, natural or synthetic, in Schedules I and II of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961, and that Convention as amended by the 1972 Protocol Amending the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961"[4]

In U.S. legal context, the term "narcotic" specifically refers to opium, opium derivatives, and their semi-synthetic or fully synthetic substitutes as well as cocaine and coca leaves.

Because the term is often used so broadly or pejoratively outside of medical contexts, most medical professionals advocate the use of more precise terms such as "opioid" and "opioid analgesic" to refer to the natural, semi-synthetic, and synthetic substances that behave pharmacologically like morphine and are used primarily for their pain-relieving qualities.[5] The use of the term "narcotic" in various nonclinical contexts is not of educational or of informative value. The decision to term all illegal drugs as narcotics is often used as a shorthand way to politicize and demonize any illegal drug."

yes, so, where Am I wrong, again?

Wiki states: Use of the word "narcotic" to refer to any illegal or unlawfully possessed drug including marijuana and cocaine is common worldwide, although these substances are not considered narcotics in a medical context.

Like I said:

Dave Couture wrote:Drugs = legal
Narcotics = illegal

Those are streets terms, not medical terms.

You said the term we were looking for was narcotic. Not so. Marijuana is not a narcotic, it is only called a narcotic by people trying to politicize or demonize its use. Which is is for you? Both?