General Music Chat

Stalled. I had to leave my fairs/festivals band due to band politics (I'm actually happy to be out of it, but now it's starting over time-again!)

That's ok Joseph. Divinity, like yourself, always seems to end up blessed. Further proof that the whole damn system is RIGGED!!!

Christ4Blues wrote: “Either God exists or God doesn't, irregardless if you believe it or not.

The unbeliever begins with the premise that God doesn't exist, and the believer begins with the premise that God does exist.”

And if none of them has proofs for their assumption “God doesn't exist” or “God does exist”, then there will be no scientific and formal logical debate.

Here follows a proof for a Creator and also a proof which prove the Creator’s purpose of the human:

Scientists have always inferred the origin of the universe by reversing the observed state of the universe. At first, the universe was thought to be static. Thus, science held that the universe simply "always was." Then scientists theorized that gravity must cause the universe to shrink. Thus, science changed its mind, inventing the "Big Bang" Theory. It wasn't until 1998 that astronomers discovered that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. Reversing an accelerating expansion to see back in time produces a universe that shrinks at a decelerating rate as one goes back in time to its origin. Follow this process to its ultimate and the rate of shrinkage reduces to converge with timespace where both are zero. That is, both shrinkage and timespace stop at timespace=0. Thus, timespace has a beginning.

From timespace=0, scientists hold that nothing in the universe magically "popped in" with no cause. It is a fundamental law of physics that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo; i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace. In contrast to endless opinionating of innumerable pseudo-scientific religionists, science recognizes the necessity of a Prime Cause ex nihilo

No eminent scientist represents that our perfectly-orderly universe can be explained ex nihilo without a Prime Cause. Being logically consistent (orderly), the universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Perfectly Orderly; i.e. Perfect. Therefore, no intelligent person can ignore that our purpose and challenge in life is learning how we, as imperfect humans, may successfully relate to a Perfect Singularity-Creator without our co-mingling, which transcends the timespace of this dimensional physical universe, becoming an imperfection to the Perfect Singularity-Creator

An orderly Creator necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). [Source: www.netzarim.co.il]

Religions that contradict" תורה (Torah), therefore, are the antithesis of the Creator.

Sci-fi story - in another universe, a creature explodes something in anger & hate. You look at that explosion through a super-microscope, & slow it down, & you see that the atoms have actually shattered, in most cases. You magnify it on down, & you see a new universe, with "solar system" atoms with burning centers swirling in constant motion, similating entire galaxies...And here we are, the results of a "perfect creator."

I'm not saying that that's what is happening, but you can't prove that it isn't.

Saying that, or even printing it, is not against the perfect creator, per se. It's a simple imaginary scenario. It could also be true, for all I know.

I don't believe it, but I could start up a new religion of ppl who do, couldn't I?

I dunno about you, but there is PLENTY of chaos that I see, that would seem to counter your claims of "logic/orderliness" that exists in the universe. Random acts of good & evil. Random acts of nature. Seemingly impossible scenarios acting themselves out daily.

I cannot attribute a human perception of "logic" or "orderliness" that allegedly exists within the universe to my god, simply because the sheer magnitude of it all is beyond my comprehension, as is his plan, if there is one.

It's like trying to debate destiny vs free choice, in a way. Neither can be truly proven at this point in time.

I dunno if I've made any sense at all, here, but it was fun to think about it.

Christ4Blues wrote: “Either God exists or God doesn't, irregardless if you believe it or not.

The unbeliever begins with the premise that God doesn't exist, and the believer begins with the premise that God does exist.”

And if none of them has proofs for their assumption “God doesn't exist” or “God does exist”, then there will be no scientific and formal logical debate.

But everyone DOES have "proofs", they're just interpreted using their assumptions differently by different people. Everyone has assumptions by which they include or exclude evidences - they still investigate "scientifically" and "logically".


Chris

I cannot attribute a human perception of "logic" or "orderliness" that allegedly exists within the universe to my god, simply because the sheer magnitude of it all is beyond my comprehension, as is his plan, if there is one.

It's like trying to debate destiny vs free choice, in a way. Neither can be truly proven at this point in time.

I dunno if I've made any sense at all, here, but it was fun to think about it.

Hah, logic makes my head hurt ^.^, but it is fun to think about this kind of stuff.

I can show you UFO's in 500 year old paintings (when only birds flew) with someone sitting inside as it flies overhead (The Madonna)

Can you show me even that much physical evidence of God?

The Sumarian's have paintings of 15' tall ruler's and stories of how they took care of all of the Sumerian's needs in exchange for their labor and obedience.

The name of God's village is in the Old Testament; this means he was one of many and not a unique being!

God (actually is quoted as saying we) destroyed the Tower Of Babbel, scattered the people's and confused their language because "if we leave them as they are they will become like us"

Again plural and like us can only be taken as gaining the same amount of knowledge and gaining technology IMO.

If you went back to 1000 BC with a bic lighter and a gun you could rule the world!


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"It is what it is"

I can show you UFO's in 500 year old paintings (when only birds flew) with someone sitting inside as it flies overhead (The Madonna)

Can you show me even that much physical evidence of God?

The Sumarian's have paintings of 15' tall ruler's and stories of how they took care of all of the Sumerian's needs in exchange for their labor and obedience.

The name of God's village is in the Old Testament; this means he was one of many and not a unique being!

God (actually is quoted as saying we) destroyed the Tower Of Babbel, scattered the people's and confused their language because "if we leave them as they are they will become like us"

Again plural and like us can only be taken as gaining the same amount of knowledge and gaining technology IMO.

If you went back to 1000 BC with a bic lighter and a gun you could rule the world!

Aliens and proof of God in the same bucket. Interesting. Anyways, even if there are aliens, it begs a few question like how did they come to be? We talkin evolution versus creation, just different planet? and do they believe in God? Doesn't really add any value to existence claims, but fun to ponder things like - since they aren't human, can we murder them and not break the "do not murder" clause?

As for "they became like us" - The Chrisitan doctrine affirms a trinitarian view - father, son and holy ghost. Part of the doctrine includes a covenant between the Father and the Son for the ransom of His people. But doctrine aside, those are all accountable - just visit a bible study and ask those questions.

As for physical proof of God, well there are the Pauline letters, the Old Testament accounts, the dead sea scrolls affirming the accuracy of the canon, etc. If you discount eye witnesses because they don't square with what you will accept as physical evidence, that just goes to show my point that an evidential approach to proving the existence of a transcendant God is like trying to prove the existence of a logical contradiction. You can't just point in the air and say "Well, I don't see a contradiction, therefore logical contradictions don't exist".

Not all things are proven in the same way.
regards,
Chris

My theory about Aliens were that UFO's were conceived by Satan as a way to distract people from God. If there are people who devote their lives to finding aliens, then they have no time to find God.

So yes, I believe some alien sitings actually did happen...But they just weren't "aliens" per say.

My theory about Aliens were that UFO's were conceived by Satan as a way to distract people from God. If there are people who devote their lives to finding aliens, then they have no time to find God.

So yes, I believe some alien sitings actually did happen...But they just weren't "aliens" per say.

So then if we see one, we can shoot it and put its head above the fireplace?

My theory about Aliens were that UFO's were conceived by Satan as a way to distract people from God. If there are people who devote their lives to finding aliens, then they have no time to find God.

So yes, I believe some alien sitings actually did happen...But they just weren't "aliens" per say.

So then if we see one, we can shoot it and put its head above the fireplace?

If you do, send me pics!

Titus 1:13 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

This is about admonishing OTHER Christians Paul.

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Revelation 3 was a rebuke to the Church in Laodicea Paul.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

ENCOURAGE with GREAT PATIENCE and CAREFUL INSTRUCTION.

Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

Once again, meant for Christians rebuking OTHER CHRISTIANS.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is a warning from Paul to Timothy ABOUT OTHER CHRISTIANS. There was dissention in the Churches and sound doctrines being challenged and put into doubt. Paul is charging Timothy to be diligent in the face of some Christians who were perverting the doctrine of Christ's resurrection, causing confusion in believers who were new in the faith. He charged Timothy to CORRECT them without fear or shame. And God will be with him, on the side of that truth.


However, even though you are not using the correct verses to do so, I get that your message is that we ARE to make judgements about things we see that are evil or wicked or incorrect.

Of course we have to make assessments of truth, as we understand them according to our faith, the written word, God's ininstructions, etc...

But I am not speaking of Ryan standing for his faith, which I commended, if you read that part. It is more broad than that. He has made HUGE SWEEPING judgements, not only about faith, but people's hearts, their character, their lifestyles, and on and on. And his judgements are RARELY if ever, patient, understanding or with love.

He called Miley Cyrus a whore. Which is a vicious and baseless assault on her character. And all the while, Ryan ADMITS that he sings songs, whose lyris are offensive and not in keeping with HIS OWN beliefs. He accuses her, for violating what Ryan believes is correct behavior, while he simultaneously violates HIS OWN BELIEFS about correct behavior.

Now, can you see why the admonition "Hypocrite, take the plank out of YOUR OWN EYE so that you can see clearly to remove the speck in your brother's eye" could be applicable?

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Nope yours was the last reply Craig. I did write to you on Facebook two days ago I believe?

Anywho. No worries, life is short. so what do you think? Can we terminate this thread (If they are willing?).

Joseph!!!!

I missed you! LOL

What's going on with you MUSICALLY?

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Dang! Craig! NOW you're takin' a Religious thread and trying to turn it into one about music!!!!!

And Chris, I had already posted that last post before I went down and read that you had said basically the same thing. Great minds...etc. etc.

Nope yours was the last reply Craig. I did write to you on Facebook two days ago I believe?

Facebook? You did? Sorry brother. I haven't read any of my messages on there in a few days. I'll go check.

Anywho. No worries, life is short. so what do you think? Can we terminate this thread (If they are willing?).

This thread? Not this one! It's the religion thread. That's why I moved Paul's quote and my comment to it here.

You mean the "Dear Mike" thread?

I don't know if they will delete it for you or not brother. But I won't respond to anything in that thread anymore if you like. And if everyone does that, it will keep getting pushed down and eventually die out.

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