General Music Chat

The reason things look "designed" to us is because of the tiny amount of time the human life occupies. Even if we lived to be a million years old things would still look designed. Over the course of billions of years all things are possible, including the unlikely event of DNA forming and giving rise to all life on earth. As to whether the universe itself was created or has always existed, I suspect we may never know. There are a few truths that seem self-evident: the arrow of time always moves forward; change is constant and universal; and things tend to go from organized to unorganized as time goes by (entropy).

This theory would leave entropy as God, all very well and good.
If entropy is the defining element of the universe, how did the billiard balls get organized in such a state to then become unorganized?

No, I am afraid Time and entropy cannot substitute for a unified theory.
they are simply observed conditions.
unless, you are putting forward the the state of organization is in itself an illusion.
I say, it must be a damn persistent one, otherwise no chemical reactions could be counted on to work the same way twice.

From another angle:
A human designing a computer program is free to incorporate improvements from programs developed by other humans in other parts of the world. On the other hand, this is precisely what we do *not* see in biological systems. (Horizontal transfer does occur, but not separated by space and time.)

The genome of humans does not include evolutionary improvements discovered by flowering plants, for example. If today's biological diversity is the product of "intelligent design", it is entirely remarkable that this designer chose to make life appear to be arranged in a branching hierarchy consistent with common descent, without incorporating improvements across different branches.

If life is designed, why does it look so much as if it evolved?

If Music is sacred then so is the work of the iron or wood worker. Music is what people make of it. I have heard, and I'm sure you've heard music that was intended as Gospel. God does not listen to repetitive drivel. Ever talk very loudly to an elderly person very loudly and get the response "you don't have to shout, I'm not deaf!" You don't have to repeat yourself to God- He hears you the first time. He does not have to respond Now because you want it Now. To praise the Lord in song is only sacred when you praise The Only God. The One that is not a figment of human imagination. The maker of everything. The one who knows your thoughts since before you were born. Think you can out think Him? Amazing Grace is a gospel that doesn't repeat it's self. It has prayer and thankfulness. It is timeless. T.N.s Stranglehold, however, is not sacred.

From another angle:

The genome of humans does not include evolutionary improvements discovered by flowering plants, for example. If today's biological diversity is the product of "intelligent design", it is entirely remarkable that this designer chose to make life appear to be arranged in a branching hierarchy consistent with common descent, without incorporating improvements across different branches.

If life is designed, why does it look so much as if it evolved?

isn't this a contradiction?

you say humans evolved but there is no evidence of evolution in the gnome?

now how could that be?

"Not one of them could survive outside of government. But if you consider them the fittest, you have real problems, friend. Smile" SlackerG

LOL Well, I would not call them intelligent. Crafty and deceitful, for sure. I suppose a certain amount of intelligence goes with that. But they obviously are fit to survive in some of the ugliest activity known to man - politics. One need not be intelligent to survive. They only need to be totally self-absorbed and self-centered. Once there, survival is a matter of doing whatever you must. I would say these political animals you mention reside on a tree of life perfectly suited to people descended from Neanderthals. You see, you want, you take, no matter what anyone else thinks.

Being a Christian, and a creationist, I am, of course, being tongue-in-cheek with this, but seriously, my own observations have shown me people who believe in Darwinian evolution tend to be quite intolerant of others views, especially those who believe in I.D or creation. The Christian loses no skin off his nose to just let people believe what they want to. America was founded, by and large, by those who believed in a great Sovereign of the universe, a Creator who bestowed inalienable rights on people. Those who seek to take those rights or deny them certainly line up with an ethic which goes hand in hand with Darwinian evolution. Either God grants rights or government does. I'd say your chosen list proves Darwin's conclusions. Obviously a list of noble and honorable people could be given to show the other side of the discussion.

If Music is sacred then so is the work of the iron or wood worker. .

...and it is.


sacred   [sey-krid] adjective

1. devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated.
2. entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy.
3. pertaining to or connected with religion ( opposed to secular or profane): sacred music; sacred books.
4. reverently dedicated to some person, purpose, or object: a morning hour sacred to study.
5. regarded with reverence: the sacred memory of a dead hero.




The various offerings in the book of Leviticus are a fascinating study into what God considers to be worship. The grain offering is the work of your hands. That, too, is worship and therefore sacred according to definition #1

Again, music speaks to the spirit of a person. This is why you can almost guess what kind of music someone likes by their "spirit". If you meet someone that wears boots, drives a pickup, and chews tobacco that "spirit" likes country music 99.9999% of the time.

Music gives a kind of pleasure that people can't live without, which makes it sacred to them, if not to a god.

And I submit that all music is worship though each person may have a god made in their own image.

...Absolutely ...music is one of the highest forms of expression that exists in the entire universe and beyond ..... SOUD. It creates and continues forever. By it's very virtue it is sacred and it's different forms assure this. Like everything else it can be bastardized by mankind but it can also be elevated providing gateways to the unseen and extend our dimensional range significantly not only in sound but also within the realm of thought. Ta

If Music is sacred then so is the work of the iron or wood worker. .

...and it is.


sacred   [sey-krid] adjective

1. devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated.
2. entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy.
3. pertaining to or connected with religion ( opposed to secular or profane): sacred music; sacred books.
4. reverently dedicated to some person, purpose, or object: a morning hour sacred to study.
5. regarded with reverence: the sacred memory of a dead hero.




The various offerings in the book of Leviticus are a fascinating study into what God considers to be worship. The grain offering is the work of your hands. That, too, is worship and therefore sacred according to definition #1

Again, music speaks to the spirit of a person. This is why you can almost guess what kind of music someone likes by their "spirit". If you meet someone that wears boots, drives a pickup, and chews tobacco that "spirit" likes country music 99.9999% of the time.

Music gives a kind of pleasure that people can't live without, which makes it sacred to them, if not to a god.

And I submit that all music is worship though each person may have a god made in their own image.

and that music designed specifically to be blasphemous?
I suppose that is sacred to someone.

then of course you have music that is completely neutral, at least not dedicated to God by intent.

of course the devil is in the details isn't it?

if there is a god he's gonna do his thing, and it
must not be making music,

music is sacred to me, get god out of it, and
wrap your self around the music, and see where
the music takes you, study the music that's where
my god lives.

Just keep doing what you do, say your prayers and don't over think it.
Maybe someone will help you out, maybe not.

It's a "reap what you sow" world. You may think no one is looking, but that's just because you don't know what to look for.

Just keep doing what you do, say your prayers and don't over think it.
Maybe someone will help you out, maybe not.

It's a "reap what you sow" world. You may think no one is looking, but that's just because you don't know what to look for.

prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

**I'm a real stinker aren't I?

Tarkhem Productions is the premier source for dark and eccentric musiq that is composed of esoteric and mystic melodies. Our musical compositions are influenced by the arcane formulas and ancient influences of occult and metaphysical vibrations that resonate with the darkest mysteries. Utilizing the secrets of powerful ancient techniques combined with the latest modern technologies our music productions are developed to enhance the darkest apparitions of visual and audible media undertakings.

gee, I'll bet you're a hoot at barmitsvahs!

Tarkhem Productions is the premier source for dark and eccentric musiq that is composed of esoteric and mystic melodies. Our musical compositions are influenced by the arcane formulas and ancient influences of occult and metaphysical vibrations that resonate with the darkest mysteries. Utilizing the secrets of powerful ancient techniques combined with the latest modern technologies our music productions are developed to enhance the darkest apparitions of visual and audible media undertakings.

gee, I'll bet you're a hoot at barmitsvahs!

Ironically I have created musiq for a Judaic mystics group they use for ceremonies.

I don't know if you say 'no God exists' just for the rouse, whether or not you really believe it with full conviction .. But I do wish you could substantiate your claim...It would be very interesting to see how you tackle this

The agnostic in me says that I really don't know whether there is a god or not, and neither does anyone else.

When I see a plate of eggs and hash browns, I know there is a cook.

How can anyone look at the universe and not know there is a Creator?

The quality of those eggs and hash browns will determine whether we believe its a cook or a vending machine. To my knowledge, there is no vending machine capable of the kind of quality and brilliance of original Hash browns and eggs. .. I agree with YOD that a certain imperative exists which affords us a common sense assumption... Some things are too brilliant, in the realm of human contexts to be anything other than a divine expression.

Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply 'god'.