General Music Chat

Im not gonna get into this devil/god stuff with you guys!

But whenever I see one of those Behind the Music programs on bands like say Iron Maiden, these guys arent satanist or christian in my mind, they are musicians who during that period of time used the emblems and stuff to just attract customers. Kinda like a lead on add for Wal Mart. I grew up in the late 70s and those covers really really pissed my parents off, so what album do you think I wanted? Seals and Crofts or Highway to Hell, man I had a mint Highway To Hell tour shirt, the baseball type and my mom threw it out cause Angus had horns.

I think most of the band have no intent in using this symbolism other than to draw people.

On the other hand Im sure there are some that maybe believe one way or the other.


All right you guys back at it!

Do you think the christian based artists/bands are more sincere or just as full of it, using christianity as an image?

That's like asking if all men like skinny women, or if all Asians are good at math.

There HAVE to be Satanic bands that both are using it mindlessly AND are truly dedicated.

Similarly there HAVE to be Christian bands that are just using it mindlessly and those that are truly dedicated.

And combinations and variations of each extreme.

I think they're sincere just as God's love for you is sincere, while the satanist bands are insincere just as the devil. God let's you make your own choices, sounds like your making a bad one. You ought to reconsider

How I do dislike proselytizing.
Look, just as "I" am not trying to convince anyone to follow a Left Hand Path it would be considerate if everyone just stop with trying to explain to me about god and their path being the right one.

But, thank you for 'sort of' answering my question.

While not exactly what I would consider satanic, thought certainly occult provoking, this is an interesting read concerning David Bowie and his relation with occult based music.

http://www.parareligion.ch/bowie.htm

Getting back to my OP, so I would assume that most music out there that dons the devil decor is really only using it as a prop? I find it odd that so many youths associate down-tuned, black death metal music with what they perceive as satanic rebellion.

I think for the most part, yes. I'm sure there are a few bands out there that are actually "theistic Lucifer'ians" or anti-God worshipers, but what does that type of music actually convey? The opposite of the 10 commandments? I'm sure they would agree on murder being wrong, and a few other things wrong, but unless they're actually summoning demons to send people to hell, they're not producing a message any different than most of the other main-stream bands out there.

Satanism, as far as I'm concerned, is just a name for loose living morals that attracts rebellious people who want to express themselves by associating with something that's supposed to add shock-value to their persona, for attention.

Anyhoo, cheers.

I'm sincere.

I've also had my say... will waste no more.

I find the term humorous.

Why would satan waste energy on those he already owns ??

Surely an immortal fallen angel has better sense than that.

Maybe he just likes the music.

Etu

Re Proslytizing

It is akin to having a pocketful of gold coins - if would be mean not to share or at least offer to share. Plus, for Christians it is a duty.

One who did not offer to share would be a very bad man indeed since he would be making the judgment call that you can literally, "go to hell."

Christianity is about the free gift of salvation. You can safely ignore the boneheads who wave a book of rules in your face. But it is wise to listen to those who talk about Christ and his free gift.

regards
Talbot

Mike, I think the main problem non-religious people have with religious people "sharing" is that we know where to go and what to do if we want religion in our lives. It's not a big secret. It's akin to me telling you to go to the library and get "On The Evolution of Species". I'm sure you're aware of what a library is and who Darwin was. Any pretense of "sharing" is merely a shallow attempt at conversion.

It always come across to me like trying to convince someone that Santa Claus exists! I understand the archetype Santa Claus exists for some and that is great, just as the god principle works for many, but not for me.

** Santa / Satan?

So, you're saying that it is the religious duty for Christians to proselytize? Is that similar to the Muslim's Jihad?

Etu

Re Proslytizing

It is akin to having a pocketful of gold coins - if would be mean not to share or at least offer to share. Plus, for Christians it is a duty.

One who did not offer to share would be a very bad man indeed since he would be making the judgment call that you can literally, "go to hell."

Christianity is about the free gift of salvation. You can safely ignore the boneheads who wave a book of rules in your face. But it is wise to listen to those who talk about Christ and his free gift.

regards
Talbot

Makes sense . . . gold coins are worthless in reality, it is "us" that empower them with worth. Good analogy.

Etu

Re Proslytizing

It is akin to having a pocketful of gold coins - if would be mean not to share or at least offer to share. Plus, for Christians it is a duty.

One who did not offer to share would be a very bad man indeed since he would be making the judgment call that you can literally, "go to hell."

Christianity is about the free gift of salvation. You can safely ignore the boneheads who wave a book of rules in your face. But it is wise to listen to those who talk about Christ and his free gift.

regards
Talbot

Well struck ...

Etu

No similarity at all to Jihad. Islam is not big on choices. Christianity proslytizes because of the so called Great Commission - Christ tells us to go out and make disciples in all the nations. It is His will that all should be saved and his grace is available to all. Our job is to tell people about it.

but not to kill them if they blow us off! Nor do we execute people who leave the faith. We reject forced conversions as well - what possible good is that eh?

Ultimately It's about what I call "Free Won't"
Christ died for us all. We can however reject that free gift and say "No thanks."

If I may take the liberty of making a suggestion - there is a wonderful book called Mere Christianity by CS Lewis (think Narnia) which explains the fundamentals better than anyone else. Lewis started out as an athiest and in his attempt to disprove Christianity he found himself believing. His book helps one get one's arms around the scriptures which must be taken as a whole. With the happy conclusion in the new Testament.

Talbot

Etu

No similarity at all to Jihad. Islam is not big on choices. Christianity proslytizes because of the so called Great Commission - Christ tells us to go out and make disciples in all the nations. It is His will that all should be saved and his grace is available to all. Our job is to tell people about it.

but not to kill them if they blow us off! Nor do we execute people who leave the faith. We reject forced conversions as well - what possible good is that eh?

I take it you never heard of the Christian Crusades? Very much like Jihad if you ask me.

Ultimately It's about what I call "Free Won't"
Christ died for us all. We can however reject that free gift and say "No thanks."

Christ died for one man alone and that was Paul . . . I have always agreed with this thought you can read a fair explanation HERE
Understandably there still remains "Sin" (which is subjective anyway) as well as the myth of His resurrection, which to me means he didn't really die and did fail at atoning for our sins.

Let me help you understand Religious Indoctrination. It is a mental coercion introduced usually in our formative years.

Scientist and professor emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Naom Chomsky states: "For those who stubbornly seek freedom, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination. These are easy to perceive in the totalitarian societies, much less so in the system of 'brainwashing under freedom' to which we are subjected and which all too often we serve as willing or unwitting instruments."

I can find nothing "Free" about this, Christianity, as well as most religions claim Freedom of Will, but in fact it is the Will of another in which its disciples are under.

If I may take the liberty of making a suggestion - there is a wonderful book called Mere Christianity by CS Lewis (think Narnia) which explains the fundamentals better than anyone else. Lewis started out as an athiest and in his attempt to disprove Christianity he found himself believing. His book helps one get one's arms around the scriptures which must be taken as a whole. With the happy conclusion in the new Testament.

Talbot

A very interesting theme, I am not closed minded in the least bit and enjoy comparative religion studies immensely, I find the World's religions to be quite fascinating. Thank you for the book suggestion.

Etu

I have known people that would avoid Black Sabbath because their front was very dark. In the DVD Black sabbath "THE LAST SUPPER" they (band) talk about their origins. While other bands were singing Little deuce coup, they found a void in the music market, really no worse than watching Dracula movies. One occasion, knowing of Zack Wilde's interest in art of the occult, Ozzy gave Zack a very old book on black magic. Thankfully Zach took the book, but during the night he was awaken by the "Figure in Black that stands before me." Soon to be followed by "Oh no, Please God help me!" More on that story, but you'll have to see the video.

Might want to fact-check that story... Zakk Wylde was born in '67. The song Black Sabbath (which was written based on the incident) came out in '70. So, either Ozzy is a VERY sick f**k who gave the Necronomicon or Satanic Bible or whatever it was to a 3 year old, or he gave the book to Iommi, not Wylde.

Jeffrey (a NJ native) a.k.a. Zack joined Ozzy in 1988, so why couldn't Ozzie have given him the book then?

Why would he be a sick f**k? Surely, other kinds of bibles are sitting next to 3 yr olds beds?