General Music Chat

Bob Dylan said it best.
"Well, It's sundown on the union and whats made in the USA sure was a good idea 'til greed got in the way".
Who are we all kidding they don't make nothing here no more.

GM ? LOL
You've got to be kidding. Of course it was the unions fault shared with management.
Open a tire shop and pay the guys changing tires 100K a year.
See how long you stay in business.
It is never a good idea to pay a masters degree level wage for a burger king skill set.

Not good for the economy. Not good for the company. And not good for the employee whom has a masters degree level mortgage when the company goes bankrupt only to discover that no one else is going to pay a master salary for a burger flippers skill set.

Nor is promotions according to "seniority" instead of ability good for the worker or the company.

If a worker does not like the working conditions, accept responsibility for ones life and make the needed change. Don't whine to "daddy" to fix the "unfairness".

100K? Where did you get that number? The average auto worker makes $28 an hour or $58,240 a year; with benefits it's around $35-40 an hour. And new workers will make roughly HALF that rate. Obviously you've never worked in an auto factory; I have and they would have to pay me a lot more than that to go back.

100K? Where did you get that number? The average auto worker makes $28 an hour or $58,240 a year; with benefits it's around $35-40 an hour. And new workers will make roughly HALF that rate. Obviously you've never worked in an auto factory; I have and they would have to pay me a lot more than that to go back.

He got the number from Republican fantasyland. Y'know? His ass.

..

$70/hr auto workers in an urban (or, more likely, suburban ) myth that circulated a while ago. Here's a good article on it: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/24/opinion/main4630103.shtml

I have issues with unions for other reasons. Firstly, bosses should be able to fire bad workers. This is especially true with the Teacher's Union. In teaching, Tenure needs to go. The education system's not perfect by a long shot, but those who can't teach certainly aren't helping, especially since the worst of them usually end up at inner-city schools.

Secondly, some unions are mandatory, as are the dues. Then the Union turn around and lines political coffers with the money. How would you like it if, in order to stay employed, you had to pay into a fund you know is going to support a candidate you don't agree with?

$70/hr auto workers in an urban (or, more likely, suburban ) myth that circulated a while ago. Here's a good article on it: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/24/opinion/main4630103.shtml

I have issues with unions for other reasons. Firstly, bosses should be able to fire bad workers. This is especially true with the Teacher's Union. In teaching, Tenure needs to go. The education system's not perfect by a long shot, but those who can't teach certainly aren't helping, especially since the worst of them usually end up at inner-city schools.

I also have mixed feelings about unions. The inability to fire bad workers is one beef I have. We used to get the WORST bus drivers on our commute to/from work. People would often complain and the company just rotated ‘em around. So, we’d just get somebody else’s asshole.

Secondly, some unions are mandatory, as are the dues. Then the Union turns around and lines political coffers with the money. How would you like it if, in order to stay employed, you had to pay into a fund you know is going to support a candidate you don't agree with?

I don’t mind paying into a political fund. It is usually the only thing progressive candidates can rely on to go against the well-funded opposition. I may not like EVERY candidate the unions support. But, it is usually better than the alternative.

$70/hr auto workers in an urban (or, more likely, suburban ) myth that circulated a while ago. Here's a good article on it: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/24/opinion/main4630103.shtml

I have issues with unions for other reasons. Firstly, bosses should be able to fire bad workers. This is especially true with the Teacher's Union. In teaching, Tenure needs to go. The education system's not perfect by a long shot, but those who can't teach certainly aren't helping, especially since the worst of them usually end up at inner-city schools.

I also have mixed feelings about unions. The inability to fire bad workers is one beef I have. We used to get the WORST bus drivers on our commute to/from work. People would often complain and the company just rotated ‘em around. So, we’d just get somebody else’s asshole.

Secondly, some unions are mandatory, as are the dues. Then the Union turns around and lines political coffers with the money. How would you like it if, in order to stay employed, you had to pay into a fund you know is going to support a candidate you don't agree with?

I don’t mind paying into a political fund. It is usually the only thing progressive candidates can rely on to go against the well-funded opposition. I may not like EVERY candidate the unions support. But, it is usually better than the alternative.

I don't mind paying into a political fund either, but I pay (when I have the money) into funds for candidates I support, not who the Union supports. The way I see it, Unions have a lot more to gain if they back out of politics. There's a growing view of them as trying to completely control business. If they back out and work on their image as representing the worker, instead of the union big-wigs and their lobbyists, they can make a substantial gain in support.

I don't mind paying into a political fund either, but I pay (when I have the money) into funds for candidates I support, not who the Union supports. The way I see it, Unions have a lot more to gain if they back out of politics. There's a growing view of them as trying to completely control business. If they back out and work on their image as representing the worker, instead of the union big-wigs and their lobbyists, they can make a substantial gain in support.

A BIG problem unions have, especially in manufacturing, is globalization. It has really cut into their effectiveness to represent workers, at least since the 1980's. Now, if they could internationalize their unions, to include places like China, they'd have better bargaining power. Unions are usually suckers to cave in at every threat to relocate to any third world country. So, they give in, they give in some more, and still get f**k 'cuz the executives give themselves raises and do whatever the hell they want anyway. Same old story every time.

I don't mind paying into a political fund either, but I pay (when I have the money) into funds for candidates I support, not who the Union supports. The way I see it, Unions have a lot more to gain if they back out of politics. There's a growing view of them as trying to completely control business. If they back out and work on their image as representing the worker, instead of the union big-wigs and their lobbyists, they can make a substantial gain in support.

A BIG problem unions have, especially in manufacturing, is globalization. It has really cut into their effectiveness to represent workers, at least since the 1980's. Now, if they could internationalize their unions, to include places like China, they'd have better bargaining power. Unions are usually suckers to cave in at every threat to relocate to any third world country. So, they give in, they give in some more, and still get f**k-ed 'cuz the executives give themselves raises and do whatever the hell they want anyway. Same old story every time.

For some reason, I can't see the Chinese Government taking well to Unions. It would be a huge step forward for them if they did, though.

I don't mind paying into a political fund either, but I pay (when I have the money) into funds for candidates I support, not who the Union supports. The way I see it, Unions have a lot more to gain if they back out of politics. There's a growing view of them as trying to completely control business. If they back out and work on their image as representing the worker, instead of the union big-wigs and their lobbyists, they can make a substantial gain in support.

A BIG problem unions have, especially in manufacturing, is globalization. It has really cut into their effectiveness to represent workers, at least since the 1980's. Now, if they could internationalize their unions, to include places like China, they'd have better bargaining power. Unions are usually suckers to cave in at every threat to relocate to any third world country. So, they give in, they give in some more, and still get f**k-ed 'cuz the executives give themselves raises and do whatever the hell they want anyway. Same old story every time.

For some reason, I can't see the Chinese Government taking well to Unions. It would be a huge step forward for them if they did, though.

Yeah those damn lefties and their socialist unions!

Wow this thread grew fast....


I've said it before and I'll say it again...your view on this all depends on your inner view of the world.

If you think that everybody is born with the same abilities and chances you tend to be conservative...

If you think that pure dumb luck determines quite a bit of your situation you tend to be liberal....

I do believe that the American public has been fed a bill of goods by big business. The anti socialism slogans have doubled since the election funding law was repealed.

Government is supposed to do what individuals can't do alone. We pool our money and then it's distributed as needed. Yes.... sometimes it's misused, but the alternative is us fighting in the streets for our food.

How much money do some people need to make? Conservatives say all the money they earn But the wealthiest 5% of the population has as much money now as the total sum of all the money in the world in 1970. And I'm sorry but that just isn't right.

I believe we all have a personal responsibility to contribute to our country. But one of the major factors in a person's ability to contribute is:
PURE DUMB LUCK.....Where you were born, your chemical make up, your race, your ability to work, your body make up.... etc...etc....You can And I don't think people should be left to suffer just because they were unlucky....

I don't think I'll change anybodies mind, but this needs to be said....

Wow this thread grew fast....


I've said it before and I'll say it again...your view on this all depends on your inner view of the world.

If you think that everybody is born with the same abilities and chances you tend to be conservative...

If you think that pure dumb luck determines quite a bit of your situation you tend to be liberal....

I do believe that the American public has been fed a bill of goods by big business. The anti socialism slogans have doubled since the election funding law was repealed.

Government is supposed to do what individuals can't do alone. We pool our money and then it's distributed as needed. Yes.... sometimes it's misused, but the alternative is us fighting in the streets for our food.

How much money do some people need to make? Conservatives say all the money they earn But the wealthiest 5% of the population has as much money now as the total sum of all the money in the world in 1970. And I'm sorry but that just isn't right.

I believe we all have a personal responsibility to contribute to our country. But one of the major factors in a person's ability to contribute is:
PURE DUMB LUCK.....Where you were born, your chemical make up, your race, your ability to work, your body make up.... etc...etc....You can And I don't think people should be left to suffer just because they were unlucky....

I don't think I'll change anybodies mind, but this needs to be said....

Read your own words! you are in total favor of outright theft. You have come out of the closet , your poor pitiful solution is to just steal and redistribute. I just walked in after another 14 hour day and I am pleased with all the good things I did to help people get through this winter. Did I make money today? DAMN RIGHT! Should I share it with the likes of some lazy worker milking the system? HELL NO!! Will I help some one truly in need? HELL YES!! Try and tax me to coerce me and STEAL from me, no way , READ YOUR OWN WORDS , stranger. You are only advocating out right theft. Can I make it any clearer?

On top of that I see so much wavering about unions and big government I see all you advocates backing down.

Did any of you ever see an evil corporation that bombed Pearl Harbor, or attacked and killed civilian populations in London, or executed millions of people in their own country?
THE ANSWER IS NO! IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GOVERNMENT THAT GOT OUT OF CONTROL! If you miss this simple point then YOU are doomed. I'M NOT!

Getting back to the tittle of this whole conversation piece. I was rudely awakened by the shared socialistic cost of unemployment insurance when I was tagged by a rather large bill to cover the cost of an employee that had been laid off by his previous employer. Instead of being rewarded by OUR GOVERNMENT for providing employment and taking someone off the DOLE I was handed a bill to share the burden of the cost of this SOCIALIST program. DO YOU GET IT NOW!!!

News Flash, No matter how much your liberal thinking says you can steal from me, I promise you, I will always overcome. There are many people that need some honest help,that big government will always avoid.

You know who you losers are, GET THIS IDEA OF STEALING AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH OUT OF YOUR HEADS. We can't pass a law and suddenly we are all rock stars. Good night!

Glen you sound like a talk show

There wouldn't even be a discussion about this if there wasn't a recession,point blank. When the economy was reasonable, people could get on unemployment and find another job before it all ran out(unemployment). But now people who used to have jobs have needed it, and it's pissing people off that still have jobs.

Taxes were raised to keep us out of a depression...supposedly. If this keeps going, we will be in one. How's that for illegal? Then Unemployment won't even be an option when more people lose their jobs.

Sorry if I sent panic to the public.