General Music Chat

Interesting also how these dead relatives only appear and speak to the most devout "believers", when non-believers are not present...

It's almost as if everything supernatural is afraid of being seen... what are they scared of?

Well, that's not accurate.

I would say that when you are ALONE or only with a limited number of people, it is easier to tap into the spiritual side of life. Prophets isolate themselves on mountain tops for a reason.

Not to mention distractions.

If I was more focused on a bunch of people around, making noise, shuffling feet, etc... It makes it harder to "tune in".

But as I said before, I don't "HEAR" them, only "FEEL" them, and this has only happened on rare occasions for me. I am very grounded on planet Earth, where that stuff is concerned... and I like it just fine that way!

My wife on the other hand...

My uncle spoke to her (screamed at her at first, cause she didn't want him talking to her... she doesn't like that she has this gift, and she does everything in her power usually, to avoid it) ... but My uncle talked to her AT A FUNERAL dude. With over a hundred people around, and a minister on a pulpit giving a eulogy, in a loud and animated voice.

My uncle was literally blasting the pastor as he was speaking, arguing about some of the things he was saying about him.

He told her a number of things at that funeral.

She didn't tell me about it until the next day.

When she started to mention it to me, I realized that we were in the same neighborhood that my uncle lived. She remembered to tell me about this, as we were quite literally, passing his house.

But I had only been to my uncle's house once before, and I honestly FORGOT that he lived where we were driving through. We were on our way to a Ferry, where you drive your car on a boat, across a river. She had never been on a ferry and I was taking her where I knew there was one.

I knew this was not coincidence, Her thinking to tell me, at the exact moment we were passing his house. She didn't know he lived there. I had even forgotten about it.

I told her I didn't believe that was coincidence and I asked if she minded if we stopped by my aunt's house... she was hesitant about that, but I told her, that I would not say a word about it, unless I saw some sign that we should share this with my aunt... his widow.

We turned around, and went back to his house.

She and the kids were home, and we apologized for intruding unannounced, and my aunt said that she was happy we had stopped by.

When we went in the house, there were two dogs that they had, and one was downstairs, but the other was upstairs. When we walked inside, the one on the top of the stairs suddenly got up, after we had sat down, and he walked downstairs, and walked straight over to my wife... just straight to her... and he put his head down on her lap, and didn't budge. My wife rubbed his head and he just sat there, looking at her, and no one else.

My aunt suddenly said... "Wow, he never does that."

"Does what?"

"Goes up to people like that, and being all friendly."

Hmm...

I thought to ask her a question...

"I see you have two dogs... was this one my uncle's favorite by any chance?

She said... "Yes! How did you know?"



And that was my sign.

I told my aunt... "You've known me since I was a child, and I even lived with you guys for a few months when my mom had to take a job for awhile, out of town... You know that I would never lie to you... I need to share something with you... and I need you to sit down, so I can do that, if that's ok with you?"

She sat down, and got a serious look on her face.

I explained what had happened, that my wife had talked to her husband, that I had seen her do this before, and it was no joke.

I told her that my uncle had been arguing with the minister, and my uncle had told my wife... "He wasn't my minster!" and she said that was true. I also detailed the other things he had told my wife, and she teared up pretty good, and said "Yes, that's all true" and "That's exactly what he would have said!" etc...

Then my wife started crying PROFUSELY and had trouble talking for a moment, and in between tears, she told my aunt that her husband was right there in the room with us, and he wanted to say some things.

My aunt started crying more.

My wife was crying.

It made me tear up also.

She started talking for him, telling my aunt, that he said he loved her very much, and that it was hell for him, watching them close the lid on his coffin... that he was afraid when they closed that lid, that they would bury his memory along with him... that he was afraid when they put him in the ground, that they would forget about him... My aunt said, of course, that this would never happen... He then said that he missed them, that HIS HEAVEN was home with his family... with them. He had been ill for years before he died (my wife never knew this) and he pointed out to her his favorite spot to sit... outside, on one particular corner of their dock. He said that what made him happiest, was sitting right there (there was no chair there at the time) he loved just sitting right in that spot, for hours and hours, and just watching the kids play, and that this is what made him happiest. My aunt acknowledged this, that it was what he would do for hours on end, and it was his favorite place to be.

After all this, and the goodbyes between uncle and aunt.... my aunt gets up from her chair, goes over to my wife, and said to me with a teary but big smile... "I'm stealing her from you for a bit Craig!" and she said to my wife... "Honey, come with me into the kitchen, I'm gonna make some coffee."

And arm in arm, off they went.

They talked in the kitchen for awhile, making coffee, and then came back out to the living room with the coffee, and we had coffee and chatted a little longer, and my aunt told my wife that she loved her, though they had just met.


And my wife said to my aunt...

"Oh, I almost forgot!... "He said to thank you for the box, it meant alot! But he didn't tell me what that meant?"

My aunt started crying all over again, and said...

"I had put some mementos, that were special to he and I, in a small wooden box. And when I was alone with him, at the viewing... I snuck it under his body, to be buried with him... but no one knew that... I didn't even tell the kids... it was something just between us!"

She thanked us for EVERYTHING and said what my wife had done for her, allowing them to talk one last time, had meant everything to her, and she felt a great deal more peace over his passing. She told us we were both welcome back anytime, and thanked us again.


But I suppose it was all a lucky break?

And maybe my wife has just been fooling me all these years, as well as making a mockery of my uncle's death and his widow's grieving, in order to perpetuate the myth even further?

Or...


"Souls survive death!"


I know clearly, which one it is.

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My take is - repeat it.

I've witnessed her do this numerous times.

Have your dead uncle talk to me.

That's retarded.

She would have to talk with someone THAT YOU KNOW, who had passed on, and then you could ask her questions, that only YOU and your RELATIVE knew the answers to. If someone wants to invite us to a funeral, then that would do it. When they realize that she can hear them, they sometimes literally start SCREAMING at her. They want to tell their loved one something, and they will eventually see her respond, and they KNOW... she is hearing them, and then there is no stopping them.

She hates it!

There are lots of explanations.

You didn't provide any.

If I happen to stand in the right place at the right time, and a fireball appears to shoot of my fingers, is that good enough for you to call it "proof" that I can shoot fireballs out of my fingers?

Or would you prefer that I repeat that amazing feat before you are willing to believe it?

First of all... you realize don't you, that we are not talking about optical illusions here? Go read the detailed story I posted, and give me rational explanations for it. You could make something up... let me see how sound your explanations are.

Secondly...

This is NOT an "amazing feat"

You may be unaware that a VERY SUBSTANTIAL percentage of the population, has had similar experiences, even when they had no other event BEFORE or SINCE in their lives like it.

Love is a POWERFUL force.

Spirits sometimes have unfinished business, and remain on this plane seeking to get a final message through. There are MANY NUMEROUS stories of loved ones on Earth having similar experiences... seeing a deceased loved one... hearing them... Not all of these are explained away as hallucinations or mental delusions. It is entirely likely, that someone reading this very thread right now, has had a similar experience... it is FAR MORE COMMON than you think.

And sometimes, these messages are very detailed and last a while. As they did with my wife and my uncle. I have known people that this happened to, where a deceased person told someone... "I had been saving something for her, in a box in the attic... It's in a small box in the trunk... she never knew I had it, and I wanted to give it to her for our 30th anniversary... but I never got the chance..."

And they will go to the place specified, and find the object mentioned.

This kind of stuff is FAR MORE COMMON than you seem aware of.

And it is LOVE... the power of LOVE in a RELATIONSHIP between two people, that causes the supernatural to come into someone's life, when they may have lived their entire lives, never having seen a spirit, or an angel, or anything else.

The love we have for one another is POWERFULLY BINDING!

And LOVE ITSELF is the greatest force there is.

It is an energy that is more pure and more powerful than you understand.

.

circular

logic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ

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2005 Gallup Poll:

69% of Americans believe they will go SOMEWHERE after death.
45% believe in ghosts.
10% of us claim to have seen a ghost.


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Bollox.

2008 Gallup Poll:

87% of children under the age of 9 believe in Santa Clause




I mean, c'mon Craig. Posting people's beliefs doesn't make them real. There was a point in time when 100% of people believed the Earth was flat.


If YOU believe you're wife talked to your dead uncle, that's great - for you. But the minute you try and use that to establish a FACT then you're just wrong.

Kramer is right. You're the perfect example of circular logic.


This is what I don't understand about Christians. Why can't you guys be happy for YOURSELF? Why do you always have to take it to the next level and try and pass off your beliefs as facts? Why can't you just be content to believe in something?

I'm perfectly happy with my beliefs... I don't need to beat people over the head with 'em...

2008 Gallup Poll:

87% of children under the age of 9 believe in Santa Clause

Are you saying there's no Santa Clause?


Mommy....!!!!!

I mean, c'mon Craig. Posting people's beliefs doesn't make them real.

Of course not. But it shows a common experience. You said it was an amazing event, and I pointed out that it was more normal than you realize.

That has nothing to do with the possibility that there may be other explanations for these experiences. I was addressing one aspect of your post, that's all.

There was a point in time when 100% of people believed the Earth was flat.

Correct.

But we live in a scientific and technologically advanced age, where people take psychology courses, and learn how the brain functions, and how it perceives and processes information, and that the brain can be "fooled" (poor choice of words) into even CREATING something that doesn't exist, because for example, it EXPECTS something to be there, and can literally place it there for you.

If you don't know what I am talking about, then I can elaborate, but I'm hoping you may have studied some psychology in college hopefully?

In any event.

This would be a little different. Not many people in modern countries still believe the Earth is flat.

If YOU believe you're wife talked to your dead uncle, that's great - for you. But the minute you try and use that to establish a FACT then you're just wrong.

It is a FACT. Just not a fact that is useful to YOU. Which I completely understand, and respect. But we are not having a contained experiment to provide empirical proof FOR THE WORLD, under keen observation and controlled conditions, so we can announce our findings on C-Span for all the world to know.

I get that this is not, and CANNOT, be a "FACT" to you, since you have no way of PROVING IT.

But we are merely having a discussion as friends, and all I hope, is that I have bought enough trust with you, or others, that you perceive that I am not a liar, and am in fact, a very honest individual. I can assure you, that I would not lie to you anyway, but... my uncle's funeral? Please. I would never tarnish my uncle's memory.

This is not a scientific study, and none of this may have any impact on you, but if I have earned "some" respect, for my character, I would only hope, it would be something you would think of, if ever something that happened in your life, that would make you reconsider the possibility, that life does have a spiritual component, and we are not purposeless beings with no thought having been invested in our existence.

To believe that life ultimately has no significance other than a purely random series of events, is very disheartening, because it means that all that went into "ME" ends one day... no more love... no more thoughts... no more dreams... Just dust. I often wonder if people who believe that, ever sit quietly and really try to imagine that?

Just disappearing.

REALLY disappearing... gone for good, and nothing to change that.

Kramer is right. You're the perfect example of circular logic.

Kramer is wrong.

I have shared personal experiences with you both, as a friend.

Nothing more.

These are real experiences, that took place in my life and my family's lives. We are not working on a scientific paper, and yet if you want to pretend as if we were, then I cannot stop you.

But I am among friend here.

The things I shared are FACTS in my life. They have no other rational explanation, and I fully understand, that this is FACTUAL to me, and not to you, since you have no proof.

But I went to Amsterdam, quite a few years ago, and while I was there, I enjoyed LEGALLY burning a few joints.

There is no evidence that I did that, but it is a FACT!

I realize that I cannot PROVE to you, that I had that experience, so it will not be a fact to you, only a claim that I made.

But it happened.

Sadly, you wouldn't doubt me in the least over that FACT.

But this other FACT you have a problem with.

It's all good. Your life certainly doesn't depend on whether you find me to be a trustworthy person or not... just realize, that if we were talking about something YOU ACCEPTED was a possibility, you wouldn't have any problem believing it really occurred. The only difference here, is that you have PREDETERMINED that my OTHER EXPERIENCE is not possible, and so you reject it, even though you wouldn't call me a liar outright. You could call me delusional, but having read my testimony, you know that, that won't explain it away.

This is what I don't understand about Christians. Why can't you guys be happy for YOURSELF? Why do you always have to take it to the next level and try and pass off your beliefs as facts? Why can't you just be content to believe in something?

I -AM- happy for myself. And my understanding of Christianity tells me that you will not suffer a burning hell as an eternal punishment from a God who "loves you" So, I am not worried about that for you in the least. But I know that living a spiritual life is more rewarding. It makes sense of things that seem senseless. It makes life more meaningful and purposeful, and less "clueless". It's beneficial to mental health, to physical health. It provides answers to the big questions: "Why am I here?" which philosophers have debated for eons, telling us, that as a people... this is a BIG QUESTION and we REALLY want to know the answer to it!

And again, ultimately....

We are only having a conversation.

Any pressure you feel, comes from YOU, my friend.

I'm not pressuring you to believe anything or do anything.

When you share how terrible and how stupid Christians are, are you proselytising me, or just sharing your experiences?

The more perspectives I get on something, the better decisions I make. So I ENJOY hearing other perspectives, and in fact, the DEEPER THE BETTER! The more involved the better! Give me everything you got, so I can see how what I already accept as truth, holds up to it!

But that may not work for you?

I find it to be VERY beneficial, in my own search for truth.

I'm perfectly happy with my beliefs... I don't need to beat people over the head with 'em...

So, when you shared your experiences you were NOT beating me over the head, but when I shared MY experiences I WAS beating you over the head?

I thought we were BOTH sharing what we have learned, in this journey called... LIFE!

I wasn't mistaken was I?



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Bollox.

Care to elaborate?



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Going back to your original post,,,, Craig these corps should have failed.
Why in America should we bail out LOSERS.
Should we help people and families that have fallen on hard times,,, ABSOLUTLEY!!!!

The question becomes should we help any organization that follows bad economic principles. Absolutley NOT.

This is the only way to truly get rid of cheating, greedy , lying, disruptive, theiving, non caring, Corps, Business, organazations, or Govt. It is called free market.

Change is coming,,, and it is going to end this PROGRESSIVE nonsense.

Read my lips,,

Facts can be proven. In your OPINION, in your BELIEF, your wife spoke to your uncle. Nothing more. If you can't prove it, you cannot claim it to be fact.

Your absolute beliefs have no meaning to those of us outside your head, Craig.

Facts can be proven. In your OPINION, in your BELIEF, your wife spoke to your uncle. Nothing more. If you can't prove it, you cannot claim it to be fact.

Your absolute beliefs have no meaning to those of us outside your head, Craig.

Ultimately there is no such thing as a FACT by your definition Phil.

This ebtire world, and every conversation you have here, could be completely an illusion. A very elaborate illusion, all existing in YOUR HEAD while you are actually strapped unconscious to a gourney in a hospital in Hoboken N.J. - And I am your punishment to yourself, for cheating on your wife, before the car accident that put you there!

All we can do, is find the best evidence... rational and reasonable.

An argument can ALWAYS be made against something.

What seems most likely?

What is reasonable?

What is rational?

I shared FACTS and you can interpret them differently, because it does not fit your predefined worldview... and I don't have a problem with that.

Just realize that NO ONE provided any other possible explanation.


If you can't understand how something can be FACTUAL in my life and experience, whether YOU have evidence for it's existence or not, then what is there to talk about?

Nothing in the world exists without Phil being provided proof first.

My wife can have CONVERSATIONS with other people you don't know, and you won't challenge whether it was a fact or not. But with my uncle, you do.

Why? Because talking to people who have passed over is not possible.

You have no evidence that this is impossible.

But you have DECIDED it is not possible.

However, my experiece and my wife's experience and my aunt's experience, is that THIS IS POSSIBLE and in fact, we have EXPERIENCED IT AS REALITY!

There is evidence that strongly suggests that this DID OCCUR!

That evidence theoretically, could have other plausible explanations, but no one can come up with any! Yet still, these same people KNOW that this is not a fact.



LMAO!!!



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Craig, I own the C. on LUCY,,,,, you owe me $.02 for using my property.
You will be hearing from my$700 @hour C. lawyer, unless you want to settle,,, say half.

Craig, I own the C. on LUCY,,,,, you owe me $.02 for using my property.
You will be hearing from my$700 @hour C. lawyer, unless you want to settle,,, say half.

Who the hell is Lucy??????

PHIL!!!! GET OUT OF THAT COMA!!!!

I CANNOT STAND BEING IN YOUR DREAM!!!!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!!

BILL COLLECTORS ARE AFTER ME, EVEN THOUGH I'M ONLY A FIGMENT OF PHIL'S IMMAGINATION!!!!!!

AAAARGH!!!!!


PHIL!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!




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