General Music Chat

im learning a lot here...thanks, people!

i had no idea about the finger picking-- to use the wrist and not have the fingers move, as wegman posted. this represents a significant change for me.

the only music i know by heart that requires picking is the introduction to "the last in line". when i first started taking guitar seriously, just 2 years ago (im a late comer, to say the least), i thought this music was impossible to learn. now, for the sake of good technique, i imagine i will have to "relearn" it. i just cant see playing it without moving the fingers!

solos are a different animal altogether for me-- doing ANY with proper meter and not messing up or stumbling is a world away. i cant get 8 notes into one i want to learn without fumbling!

Gi,

Not finger picking. You have to move the fingers. I am talking about alternate picking with a pick. Guitarists will move their thumb and fore finger to pick rather then pick from the the wrist. Here is what I wrote:

I can't stress enough that you first learn to do things properly. I have seen this come back to bite many a player. One of the ones I see is poor picking technique. The player should pick from the wrist and the thumb and index finger should not move yet I see tons of guys picking with their thumb and index finger and not the wrist. This is a very bad habit. Their is also a proper way to finger pick. Classical study teaches this. I recommend you at least get familiar with it first..

I am sorry if that was not clear. I read it back and if you haven't seen what I am talking about it is confusing. Sorry about that Gi.

I said their is also a proper way to finger pick which classical studies teach. Basically the thumb is responsible for the low 3 strings and the remaining three for the top 3. This is not written in stone and will change depending on the piece but that is a the general template to start from. Also their is proper position for the finger picking hand and that is something I would have to show as opposed to explain. The thumb should also user proper attack and my favorite is the filing and sanding of the finger nails to get nice tone and proper attack. There are also excersises and proper finger picking technique for fast runs and scales. It will take me to long to explain it.

I see what you are talking about Wegman. I know what the major scale is, and I pretty much know what the modes are. It is all fascinating, but it always did confuse me. I need to learn, as you were saying, all the different patterns and positions of these scales. But I did try that C Natural Progression you gave me. I can take those notes and make them flow into different notes fairly easily, so it is easy to make a song out of that I can see.

What wegman posted just screams "circle of Fifths". The part he spoke of "resolve"? in playing terms thats called "the turnaround". When someone says "back to the turnaround" you know right where to go.
Fascinating watching all of this fit together isn't it?

Fascinating, but at times confusing.

Fantasia Suite by Al Dimeola

Meditarain Sundance / Rio Ancho by Al Dimeola.

Frevo Resgado by Egberto Gismonti as played by Paco Delucia and John McLaughlin

Midsummers Daydream by Rick Emmet.

yay another Dimeola fan! Casino is a great CD.

While learning almost any tune is hard what is especially hard for me is creating basslines for the recordings I play on. I allways try to come up with something that fits the tune but also something that adds to the tune and if it's at all possible make some other bass player think "What a cool inventive bass line that guy made"

Most of the time nowadays I'm getting 2 out of 3. =/

That being said the hardest tunes I've had to learn and sometime go back and relearn are

Assembly Line - The Dregs
Far Beyond the Sun - Yngwie
Still a Friend of Mine - Incognito
Any Unforseen Event - Attention Deficit (Michael Manring) Yikes!

Come to think of it while some tunes might not be technically demanding getting the right feel can sometimes be elusive.

By the way, question. What is the difference between a tube amplifier and a regular amplifier? For instance, Line 6 just released a new tube amplifier as opposed to their standard amplifiers.

Franny,

Yes resolve

From what I remember from theory that is the way it was explained to me. I have never heard of the term "turnaround". Not saying because I have never heard of it doesn't mean it's not right, just never heard of it. My instructors always said resolve. Your out on the East cost and you guys don't turn something off you cut it off don't you? So maybe that's it. Different verbage in different parts of the country?

And for the record I am giving the 100k foot view on this stuff. Not to mention my theory and what is not great anyway. Forgot alot. Accidentally on purpose.

BassPlay3r,

Dimeola is my man. If you haven't already check out Friday Night in San Francisco. Unbelievable.

Are you a Stanly Clark fan? The Live at Montreaux has Dimeola, John Luc Ponty and Stanly Clark and IMO Stanly Clark stole the show. Check that DVD out if you haven't already.

You said something that really impressed me and I wish more musicians thought this way. That is when you said coming up with something that fits the tune and is inventive. Allow me to explain. When composing a song each players part should be it's own composition, that together make up the over all composition. I use Rush as an example. If you listen to each guys part, you will find very rarely are all 3 of them doing the same thing or playing the same part yet the song works.

I also couldn't agree more that the feel is many times more difficult then the technical aspects. At least in my case.

By the way, question. What is the difference between a tube amplifier and a regular amplifier? For instance, Line 6 just released a new tube amplifier as opposed to their standard amplifiers.

Oh man are you seriously going to start that debate? A tube amp or "valve" amp actually uses vaccumm valves (tubes) for gain, tone etc. A regular amp or as it is properly known as "solid state" does not use valves but circut boards for the gain, tone etc.

The problem here is that their is the great debate between which is better which is why I made the earlier crack about you starting that debate.

Again if you really want to know I can explain it but there is alot to it.

Basically valve amps are better, and worse.

Well, okay. Sorry about starting this debate, I am sure there will be a war here later on. Lol.

But yeah, I see, it uses vacuum tubes... Okay, well explain the rest to me then, even though there is a lot to it, if you do not mind. I would appreciate it.

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

Franny,

Yes resolve

From what I remember from theory that is the way it was explained to me. I have never heard of the term "turnaround". Not saying because I have never heard of it doesn't mean it's not right, just never heard of it. My instructors always said resolve. Your out on the East cost and you guys don't turn something off you cut it off don't you? So maybe that's it. Different verbage in different parts of the country?

And for the record I am giving the 100k foot view on this stuff. Not to mention my theory and what is not great anyway. Forgot alot. Accidentally on purpose.

Haha, sorry bout that.
From a Jazz dictionary: Turnaround- a sequence of chords, or the portion of a tune that they occupy, that forms a cadence at the end of a section of the tune, definitively establishes the tonic key, and leads back to the opening chord of the next section, or to the top.

Yours is said theoretically, mine is used on stage or real world.
It leads to the same place. You were showing a resolve of chord sequence, i took it to a progression resolve or "turnaround". Using your chords you posted C, F, G...after the G is the "turnaround" to get back to where you started or resolve to.

Franny,

I figured it was a hip or contemporary way of saying it. For the record Franny I see you out here all the time and I know you know your stuff. You have my respect. I just wanted to make sure the terms were straight so guitaranatomy doesn't get confused or I have gotten old and out of touch.

Studying classical is pretty anal so I use the theoretical terms just because that is what the instructor wants to hear.

And as I stated earlier I am not trying to sound like I really know what I am talking about. Just putting out there what I remember. There are guys who are theory animals. I am not one of them.

By the way, question. What is the difference between a tube amplifier and a regular amplifier? For instance, Line 6 just released a new tube amplifier as opposed to their standard amplifiers.

Here is the best I can do on short notice.

There is a reason why valve amps are superior to solid state and the difference is the valves themselves. Valves add a tonal quality that can not be replicated by solid state. The solid state amps have come a long way and are getting very close compared to there contemporaries, but they are not quite there yet. I read a whole write up on why this is and if I can find it I will post it.

Edit:

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting. ... n320-2.pdf

http://www.tone-lizard.com/Marshall_Myths.htm

http://thetubestore.com/inonmaram.html

The main reason a guitarist with a valve amp is not getting the tone he wants is because he is not using the right valves for the tonal quality he is trying to achieve. Tonal and gain quality from valve to valve will differ even in the same models and lots slightly. Tone and gain quality from manufacturer to manufacturer will differ greatly. In addition we hear many times that guitarists play so loud to get tone. This also has to do with the scientific qualities of valves. The harder they are pushed, the more responsivie the valve becomes, and thus the gain and tone follow suit. The valve also adds harmonic overtones that give the sound a more musical quality. A solid state simply can not achieve these qualities.

Another thing I never knew. Most of us probably do not change our valves nearly often enough. Under average home volumes and moderate use 3 years is about the max before replacement of the output valves. If your gigging and practicing on a regular basis and cranking the amp, cut that time in half. The pre amp valves will last roughly twice as long but that is not a given.

The pre-amp valves are what give the guitarist his tone and gain, however they work in concert with the output valves. So for the discerning guitarist and his precious tone he will hand pick pre-amp valves and power valves that sound the best to him when used together He may choose Svetlana pre valves and Mullard output valves or whatever. Eddie Van Halen back in the day actually bought pallets of I believe Mullard valves because they gave him his signature tone and he was burning them up on a weekly basis. They are stored in a warhehouse some where and he has cornered the market on these vintage valves from what I read.

As Bob said it is to the guitarist to trust his ears, and the guitar makes a big difference but from everything I have read a properly biased, and carefully choosen valve in a valve amp simply can't be beat for it's musical qualities.

I have played both over the years and I will never give up my all valve Marshall.

Wegman,

I love Stanley and I grew up on him. Try to use some of his stuff but I allways tended more to Jaco or Jeff Berlin =/ While I dig on the old school fusion like Beck, Cobham, Ponty, Mahavishnu and many others, I've pretty much burned holes in my head listening to it. So I allways look for some new stuff.

Lately I've been into

Vital Tech Tones http://www.guitar9.com/vitaltechtones.html
Everything is good
Tribal Tech http://www.guitar9.com/vitaltechtones.html
Checkout Canine
The Light Beyond http://www.guitar9.com/thelightbeyond.html
Checkout Katahdin

BTW one of the kids I jam with on NINJAM turned me onto this new dude. Who kick ass!
Wanyne Krantz http://www.waynekrantz.com
Checkout Whippersnapper! OMG now that jammin

Hey BassPlay3r,

Thanks I will check that stuff out. I as well am always looking for new/different stuff.

Hey, how is ninjam working for you? I have messed around with it with a drummer buddy of mine and there is to much latency. You have the same issues or do you have some words of wisdom you could provide me.

I thank you in advance if you can help.